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Guest ThrottleUp

Air crew hours of service and stuff!!!

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Hi all: Several months ago one of our resident Professional Pilots, and I'llbe darned if I can remember which one, made the comment that Truck Drivers had more favorable "Hours of service" regulations than Pilotsdid. Now being one of the aforementioned Truck Drivers I was real curiousabout that. However by the time I got around to posting a query Icouldn't find the thread anymore. So, I'd really enjoy a response to this, as if this is really true I'mgoing to have to "Go Greyhound" from now on:-lol All Transportation crew members, in the U.S., operate under some sortof Gov't mandated Maximum hours of service. Although the company youwork for usually considers it to be the REQUIRED hours of service:-mad So if one of our "Line Pilot" friends would respond I'd appreciateit. Thanks Denny

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For 135 operations, you can read the regulations here:http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-....4.23.6&idno=14I work under part 135 and am familiar with those regs, so here's a quick summary:1200 hours flight time max per year120 hours flight time max per month34 hours flight time max per week8 hours of flight time per day (24 hours)15 hours of duty time per dayMust get 9 consecutive hours of rest per 24 hour periodMust get 24 consecutive hours of rest in every consecutive 7 day periodThere are conditions under which these times can be exceeded in one 24 hour period, but then extra rest is required.Duty time can include travel time that is not local in nature - i.e. dead-heading to another airport to report for duty. Commuting to and from work by car usually does not count as duty time. I have a 40 minute drive to and from work, so there's 1.5 hours that comes out of my 9 hours of rest time.I'm not as familiar with part 121 operations, but you can read the duty time and rest requirements here:http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-...4.19.17&idno=14The regs can be hard to read, but hope that helps ...John

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I'm not nitpicking but am clarifying what was posted above: It is correct for the most part.I work Part 121, but we are granted an exemption to allow us to use Scheduled Part 135 duty time/rest time regs under Part 121.For Part 135: (scheduled 135) - unscheduled Part 135 duty/rest times are different.>> 34 hours flight time max per weekIt is actually 34 hours in 7 calendar days, whereas the 1200 and 120 hour limitation is for the year and month respectively - it resets on Jan 1 and the 1st of every month. The 34hrs is a rolling time period - you have to look back 6 days, and if the time you flew in the last six days plus the time you are scheduled to fly on the 7th day exceeds 34 hours, then there is a problem.>> 8 hours of flight time per day (24 hours)It is 8 hours of flying without a rest period.You can fly more than 8 hours in a day, but you have to be given a rest period before you can exceed the 8 hours. The minimum rest period is 9 hours, but is reduceable to 8 hours of rest.There is no regulatory maximum flying allowed in one day, or maximum hours you are on duty, but since there are only 24 hours a day, if you reduced the rest to the minimum 8 hours, then it follows that you can only be on duty for 16 hours in a day. You just run out of time. So really the maximum flying you can do in one day is 16 hours of flying - that is a lot of flying.Under Part 121 the flight time duty times are more restrictive and it depends if you are running a domestic, flag or supplemental operation and how many people are in the flight crew.I'll just stick to Domestic Part 121 - 2 pilot crews. In this case your maximums are:- 1000 hours of flying in a calendar year.- 100 hours of flying in a calendar month.- 30 hours of flying in a 7 day period.- 8 hours of flying without a rest period.- 24 consecutive hours of rest every 7 days. - You can still work 365 days straight so long as you are given 24 consecutive hours off every seven days (e.g. off at noon, duty back on at noon the next day) - This does not require the air carrier to give you a calendar day off.- 9 hours of rest if you are scheduled for 8 hours of flying or less in a 24 hour period, reduceable to 8 hours if you are given 10 hours of compensatory rest (at a specific designated time that escapes me at the moment - I think within 24 hours from the start of the reduced rest period)- 10 hours of rest if you are scheduled for 8 to 9 hours of flying in a 24 hour period, reduceable to 8 hours if you are given 11 hours of compensatory rest- 11 hours of rest if you are scheduled for more than 9 hours of flying in a 24 hour period, reduceable to 9 hours of rest if you are given 12 hours of compensatory rest.I have heard horror stories from pilots whose companies follow the letter of the FARs, e.g. I've heard a pilot flying for an unscheduled Part 135 carrier being only given 13 days off in 3 months (totally legal) - the FARs only require 13 rest periods in a calendar quarter.

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>>I'll just stick to Domestic Part 121 - 2 pilot crews. In this>case your maximums are:>>- 1000 hours of flying in a calendar year.>- 100 hours of flying in a calendar month.>- 30 hours of flying in a 7 day period.>- 8 hours of flying without a rest period.One keyword regarding these times is "scheduled." There is no actual limit to what you actually fly. So if O'hare goes into the crapper or if you get broken airplanes, you could be in for a day which is much longer than 8 hours. If you are legal to start the day, you are legal to end the day, no matter how many hours you end up working. The only drop dead time limit is the 16hr duty day limit.

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a typical "duty" day is around 12-14 hours with 6 hours of flying, ie you get paid for 6 hours of work while "working" 12-14 hours.a typical 121 lineholder has a 4 on 3 off schedule with about 22-25 hours of flying per week.a 16 hour duty day sucks! you are dead tired afterwards. the problem is the "rest" requirements are not defined "behind doors". thus you arrive at your overnight. it takes an hour to get into your hotel room (so know you're down to 7 hours of rest), you must wake up early to get ready and ride a van to the airport (another hour lost so now down to 6 hours). also airlines do not study biology so they expect you to have late show times for 3 of the 4 days and then magically be able to goto bed early and wakeup early on day 4.

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Well said, CRJ700FO.I've read and heard through the grapevine that the FAA wants revamp the duty/rest regs and obviate the popular interpretation of looking back to see if enough rest has been given in the prior 24 hours. What I've been told is that various operators have strenuously objected to the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that the FAA wants to do and the initiative is currently stalled.I think most operators know that long duty days and limited rest, while technically legal, add significant risk factors. This is particularly the case in the single-pilots ops that I fly where there is no one else to catch your mistakes, except ATC. I often fly the most challenging leg at the end of my duty day, at night, in IMC. Talk about risk ...I recommend Les Abend's recent article in "Flying" to anyone who hasn't already read it. He succinctly describes why being a professional pilot is not what it used to be and not what many people think it is.John

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Well guys,How about 18 (yes 18) takeoffs and landings in a Convair 580 the last day of a three day trip thru Nebraska, the Dakotas and Minnesota in the early 70's (1970's not 1870's):-)Done this during the winter when making 18 approaches in the weather.Only three of the airports had ILS the rest were non-precision approaches with three of them off of commercial (listening to the farm report) radio stations. Ah yes, the "Good old days" Not complaining mind you, glad to have been there done that.Ed Weber a.k.a tallpilot

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>I recommend Les Abend's recent article in "Flying" to anyone>who hasn't already read it. He succinctly describes why being>a professional pilot is not what it used to be and not what>many people think it is.keep in mind Les's contract at American gives him 8 hours of rest BEHIND the hotel door. the major airline pilot whines are a lot different than the regional airline pilot whines.

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When are they gonna wake up to the fact that tired doctors & pilots = BAD IDEA!They really do need biology/physiology lessons...

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