KATL and AI Traffic - A fix?

[JimBrown 596]

As some of you know, the release of AIG's AI Traffic for MSFS 2020, as well Simple Traffic, have exposed some flaws in the current implementation of AI traffic handling.

In particular, KATL has an annoying habit of "stacking" airplanes on certain runways ready for take off, but they never take off. It was then discovered that there are hold short points on those runways that cause the issue. Interestingly, if you look at those runways in Bing maps (and Google maps) satellite view, there are indeed hold short lines on those runways! (Why, I have no idea). So, the AI that generates the airports saw those hold short lines on the runways and dutifully added hold short points to the taxi line definitions. But the AI traffic logic does not know how to handle those specific hold short points. (This is an MSFS 2020 issue, not an AIG or Simple Traffic issue).

All that said, in an attempt to fix the issue I have used ADE for MSFS 2020 to remove those hold short points (and reconnect the appropriate taxi lines). But, I am not sure that it works correctly with the US World Update, which included a "hand crafted" edition of KATL. I'm guessing the "hand crafted" part simply added stuff (buildings, equipment, etc) to the default airport, but still uses the default runway/taxiway layout). I did try it myself, and it appears to work, but I can't tell if it affected anything else, particularly with regards to the WU (I do have that installed).

Therefore, before I upload it to Flightsim.to, I'm wondering if anyone would like to test it and provide feedback. If so, please private message me and I'll get the file to you. Please note that this mod is only concerned with the hold short issue (although I did add the missing runway numbers to runway 10/28). Anything else is out of scope.

Thanks,

...jim

 

[Kaiii3 1,979]

37 minutes ago, JimBrown said:

As some of you know, the release of AIG's AI Traffic for MSFS 2020, as well Simple Traffic, have exposed some flaws in the current implementation of AI traffic handling.

In particular, KATL has an annoying habit of "stacking" airplanes on certain runways ready for take off, but they never take off. It was then discovered that there are hold short points on those runways that cause the issue. Interestingly, if you look at those runways in Bing maps (and Google maps) satellite view, there are indeed hold short lines on those runways! (Why, I have no idea). So, the AI that generates the airports saw those hold short lines on the runways and dutifully added hold short points to the taxi line definitions. But the AI traffic logic does not know how to handle those specific hold short points. (This is an MSFS 2020 issue, not an AIG or Simple Traffic issue).

All that said, in an attempt to fix the issue I have used ADE for MSFS 2020 to remove those hold short points (and reconnect the appropriate taxi lines). But, I am not sure that it works correctly with the US World Update, which included a "hand crafted" edition of KATL. I'm guessing the "hand crafted" part simply added stuff (buildings, equipment, etc) to the default airport, but still uses the default runway/taxiway layout). I did try it myself, and it appears to work, but I can't tell if it affected anything else, particularly with regards to the WU (I do have that installed).

Therefore, before I upload it to Flightsim.to, I'm wondering if anyone would like to test it and provide feedback. If so, please private message me and I'll get the file to you. Please note that this mod is only concerned with the hold short issue (although I did add the missing runway numbers to runway 10/28). Anything else is out of scope.

Thanks,

...jim

 

check if the worldupdate Airport comes with its own airport file. If so it might cause issues when you edit the stock airport and not the WU Airport.

[JimBrown 596]

14 minutes ago, Kaiii3 said:

check if the worldupdate Airport comes with its own airport file. If so it might cause issues when you edit the stock airport and not the WU Airport.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. While the WU airport does have its own BGL file, opening that in ADE does not show all the information one would expect when opening the stock airport. There are no hold short points anywhere, there does not appear to be any aprons, most of the taxi paths are type taxi instead of type path, and a few other things.

It seems to me that the stock airport is loaded first, then the WU airport is loaded on top of that. My hope is that the mod airport is then loaded on top of all that, which one would think would work. But I'm not sure, hence my request for volunteers to test the mod.

...jim

 

[Phantoms 800]

BadT had made a file and uploaded it when we discovered this back a while. He claimed ADE may cause additional problems removing ILS and navaids.  I think Kai mentioned in that thread that default KATL (not the WU one) worked too. You can read that thread at

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Phantoms

[JimBrown 596]

1 hour ago, Phantoms said:

BadT had made a file and uploaded it when we discovered this back a while. He claimed ADE may cause additional problems removing ILS and navaids.  I think Kai mentioned in that thread that default KATL (not the WU one) worked too.

Yes, I read that thread, and my recent experience with KATL is what led me to try this. Since that time, ADE has progressed, and one is able to create an airport mod that leaves the navaids alone. The trick here is that KATL was enhanced with the WU USA update, but this issue is in both the stock and enhanced versions. As I said above, the mod appears to be working for me, but before I upload it to Flightsim.to, I would like other eyes on it.

Or, if someone can point to something (a building for instance) that is different between the original stock airport and the WU enhanced airport, I could check for that.

The mod works, ie; airplanes taxi out the affected runways (26R, 8L, 27L, and 9R) and take off, even with the WU airport installed and active. Again, I made the mod using the stock default airport, but with the WU airport also installed. I'm trying to figure out if the mod I made reverts the WU airport back to the stock airport.

Still looking for volunteers. Or, now, something identifiable that is different between the stock and WU enhanced airport.

Thanks,

...jim

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by JimBrown

[JimBrown 596]

Finally figured out how to answer my question. Found some easily identifiable landmarks that are in the WU version but not the stock version.

And the answer is not good. The mod reverts the airport to stock, even if you have the WU airport installed.

Too bad. I though I was on to something there. I'm going to keep digging though. Might one day figure it out. 😉

...jim

 

[Phantoms 800]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:20 PM, JimBrown said:

Yes, I read that thread, and my recent experience with KATL is what led me to try this......

 

.....The trick here is that KATL was enhanced with the WU USA update, but this issue is in both the stock and enhanced versions.

 

I thought in that thread that it was stated the non-WU KATL worked fine. Might have to go back and read it myself.

[JimBrown 596]

9 hours ago, Phantoms said:

I thought in that thread that it was stated the non-WU KATL worked fine. Might have to go back and read it myself.

I did check both versions. Uninstalled the WU KATL (one does not have to uninstall the entire WU...) and issue is there. Reinstalled WU KATL and issue is there.

Since the "fix" boogers the WU KATL, I've moved on. To KCTL, which appears to be even worse that KATL with hold short nodes all over almost all the runways. But at least I can do something with that one, as it is still a default stock airport.

...jim