MS Sidewinder FF Joystick

[Fatback 84]

So I’m about to make the jump to MS 2020. Does it support the MS joystick or do I need to make a bunch of data entries?

[Noncon 19]

Just plug it in and fly.  Obviously force feedback is not supported, but you can install XPForce (payware) which does provide FFB functions to the sim. 

[FlyingGoose 405]

Works great. I use it everyday (well, days I sim). No FFB, but even without that it's a really nice joystick to use. It even has auto trimming (kidding, but you can use the fact that it doesn't auto return to do a kind of trimming... works really well)

[Fatback 84]

Thx for the replies. Gonna do this…

[Johan217 49]

12 hours ago, FlyingGoose said:

Works great. I use it everyday (well, days I sim). No FFB, but even without that it's a really nice joystick to use. It even has auto trimming (kidding, but you can use the fact that it doesn't auto return to do a kind of trimming... works really well)

Could you please explain how that pseudo-trim effect works for you? It seems that my SW returns to center all the time, am I missing a setting somewhere?

[FlyingGoose 405]

46 minutes ago, Johan217 said:

Could you please explain how that pseudo-trim effect works for you? It seems that my SW returns to center all the time, am I missing a setting somewhere?

The FFB joystick doesn’t have a spring bringing it back to centre. It uses an optical sensor to detect if you’re holding it, and then uses the FFB motors to centre it. 
 

if you look under button 1 (the big button up front that falls under your index finger), you’ll see the hole for the optical sensor.

so, to trim, you can gently position the joystick without wrapping your hand around it, and it will stay in that position. Use your fingers on the top of the stick. 

[FlyingGoose 405]

It’s not really trimming, properly defined, but the effect is the same - the plane flies straight and level without you having to hold the stick. 

[FlyingGoose 405]

1 minute ago, FlyingGoose said:

The FFB joystick doesn’t have a spring bringing it back to centre. It uses an optical sensor to detect if you’re holding it, and then uses the FFB motors to centre it. 
 

if you look under button 1 (the big button up front that falls under your index finger), you’ll see the hole for the optical sensor.

so, to trim, you can gently position the joystick without wrapping your hand around it, and it will stay in that position. Use your fingers on the top of the stick. 

And finally, this is best used to do that last little bit of trimming; first trim with the trim buttons, and then set the final position with the stick. I find this much easier than tapping the trim buttons trying to find that last perfect position. 

[Johan217 49]

@FlyingGooseThank you so much for explaining. I've had this stick for so many years and now I learn something new about it. Works exacty like you described. Turns out, however, that the sensor on my stick must have become blocked over time but a cleaning job will take care of that.

For force feedback in the sim, there is AirForce Player which is free but does not simulate trim as far as I know, and its effects are fairly basic. I am currently using the payware XPForce, which allows more fine tuning and does model trim forces. Not perfect but better than nothing.

[Fatback 84]

8 hours ago, Johan217 said:

@FlyingGooseThank you so much for explaining. I've had this stick for so many years and now I learn something new about it. Works exacty like you described. Turns out, however, that the sensor on my stick must have become blocked over time but a cleaning job will take care of that.

For force feedback in the sim, there is AirForce Player which is free but does not simulate trim as far as I know, and its effects are fairly basic. I am currently using the payware XPForce, which allows more fine tuning and does model trim forces. Not perfect but better than nothing.

I used FF Force from Dirks Software in P3D. Do you know how XPForce compares to that?

[Johan217 49]

3 hours ago, Fatback said:

I used FF Force from Dirks Software in P3D. Do you know how XPForce compares to that?

Not on P3D but I used it with FSX and it has been a while so my memory may be rusty.

I'd say that XPForce allows more precise tuning, e.g. you can configure the buffeting effect to become progressively weaker so that is barely noticeable at flaps 1. On the other hand I feel that Dirks' FS Force handled trim forces better. Which is unfortunate, because trim is THE reason why I want force feedback.

One negative point with XPForce is that it gives me random bumps while taxiing even with all ground forces turned off. I once contacted support about it but never got an answer.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Johan217