If this doesn't scream XBox...

[Guest Id Rather Be Flying]

>Well for such an accomplished programmer you certainly don't>seem to know much about hardware, or the direction in which>entertainment is going.Enjoy what you wish and I shall do the same.>>The XBox 360 is a very capable machine - I don't see why one>shouldn't release a version of a flightsim for it - it'll>certainly solve 99.9% of the issues people are whinging>about.>Enjoy your Living Room.>Humanity never ceases to amaze me.You got that one right!

[Guest Jimbofly]

That's what people said about PC gaming in general before the introduction of the XBox and more recently the XBox 360. I have yet to see a PC game that compares in terms of visuals and fluidity that I've seen on the XBox, and Pat's assertion that the XBox cannot run complex games is utter BS.Oh and Crysis has come about almost 2 years after the intro of the XBox 360, so you can't really use that as a basis for comparison, and PC games are still going strong as is evidenced by Crysis.Porting FS to a console will not be the death of the sim. I wish people would stop talking nonsense it's irritating at best.James

[aerdt 0]

I have explained in a hopefully understandable level of detail why the XBox hardware is not suited for a flight simulator.As for the direction in which entertainment is going, then I think I can take any console out of the equation, because there is not a single title for any console that offers intelligent or advanced gaming, unless you're happy with first person shooters, arcade or family games. Sure, some titles are fun, but you just won't find a strategy or simulation game or anything modular, expandable or downloadable for a console title, because FS thrives on the added content and the controls. It is more a "flight simulation framework" for me that I can expand and setup to suit my needs.If you're happy to fly FSX with a 360 controller than that's fine, but I need my controls, my TrackIR and all the other hardware and software gadgets to help me simulate realism and anything less than that would be be two steps in the opposite direction.Pat

[FlyingsCool 3]

To Phil's point, you described why it is YOUR OPINION that the XBox hardware is not suited for a flight simulator. In my opinion, you did not convince me in any way that it is not possible, or that ACES should not consider it.BTW, I've seen plenty of downloads, user created upgrades, patches and so on for PS2 games. I imagine the same would be true for XBox if I looked.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[aerdt 0]

Crysis is NOT a flight simulator, but one of the many (interchangable) first-person shooters with nice graphics, but a very limited game coverage. It cannot be compared with a flight sim. Stop comparing apples with oranges.The XBox has good and very capable hardware and if everyone would have a triple core 3.2GHz and a 500Mhz GPU than we probably have zero performance problems with FSX and would experience a similar fluidity - and all arguments for an XBox port would be void.Talking nonsense is someone suggesting that a port to XBox would benefit anyone in any way. Good grief. The only benefit would be performance and convenience, but there are at least a dozen arguments that would make the FS series LESS than what we currently have.Pat

[aerdt 0]

Ok, give me arguments of why FS should be ported to a console and where the flightsim enthousiast who enjoys complex add-ons like PMDG, LevelD or Eaglesoft could benefit from a console version.Just a little food for thought:- How would you install a Flight1 add-on? How would you purchase it?- How would you navigate around the cockpit, find and click on the APU switch?- How would you zoom in and out, rotate, switch views?- How would you configure AI aircraft?- How would you repaint your favorite airplane?- How would you communicate with ATC?- How would you display GPS, moving map, flight planner, etc and fly at the same time and be able to move for example th GPS around the screen to not cover anything else?- How would you record and playback flights?- How would you use two or more independent displays?- How would you use a home cockpit?- How would you pay for 3rd party devs to get licensed for the XBox SDK? As far as I know/read, the full SDK is not free and only open to very few professional developers (Source: Xbox Dev website)Yea, ideally, it would very cool to do that, to use a headset and get connected to Vatsim or IVAO or whatever and to use a PC for the customization of content that can be uploaded onto an XBox. Or to have a SimMarket integrated and to use all the current hardware that we already have. But... it's technically just a dream that we're far away from.Don't get me wrong: I like it simple, compact and intergrated (I am writing this on a Mac, duh).Pat

[Geofa 108]

I guess I look at it differently. Anything that introduces and generates excitement for aviation to me is a good thing.Even if the xbox version were a "dumbed down" version of fsx-it might get some shoot 'em uppers interested in aviation, encourage them to even make the transition to a pc version, and even to the real version.....All good things in my opinion.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8aa8e4...113291f5f4g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[aerdt 0]

See, that's where our opinions differ. I don't consider a fighter simulation, flying through hoops or dropping flour bombs to be aviation-related, but merely short-term entertainment. Nothing wrong with that, as FSX satisfied a lot of playing/simulation styles. As a simulator and aviation enthusiast you need to know about the weather, the procedures, the flight plan, the charts, fuel, etc etc - and most of the time the planning can be more exciting and rewarding than the actual flight, because it gives me the opportunity to combine the simulation with knowledge that I can use in real life as well.I am very interested in the "real deal". I do have a PPL and I do enjoy leasing a real plane, but the FS gives me an additional inexpensive chance to fly dual-prop or heavies and learn the procedures, for example.An arcade style game (and much of Acceleration for that matter) does absolutely nothing for me and I would doubt that it would help to promote real aviation in any way.Yea, I have played WoW and other games for hours, days and weeks, but I reached a point of thinking to myself: What's the purpose of slashing victim no. 2311 or that I beat the highscore in Guitar Hero? It's just not really that satisfying or serves a particular purpose for me. FS is just so totally different from anything else that most of us have played and, yea, a few people (me) have a strong opinion of why the only FS that we currently have (except for X-Plane, other discussion) should continuously improve to get even more realistic and more "fun" and shall now be allowed to be dumbed down like so many other classic games. Any move to a console would be ten steps back for me, unless it gives me the SAME (or better) level of FSX complexity on a unified, easier to use and more performance-optimized hardware.Pat

[Geofa 108]

I also have no interest in an arcade style game and frankly the added stuff Acceleration does. I also have absolutely no interest in heavies, fmc's and all that.But it was fs1 and the ww1 fighter, Chuck Yeager sim, and jet fighter 1 that got me revved up about aviation and to earn my ppl in 1989...Anything that encourages interest in any aspect of aviation is a good thing imho-including flour bombs, heavies, and even virtual stewardesses if that is what it takes. :-)http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8aa8e4...113291f5f4g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[aerdt 0]

Yea, where are those virtual stewardesses anyway? *thump*Pat

[FlyingsCool 3]

Yeah, Jet Fighter was cool. I showed it to a coworker who had previously coded military flight sims and even he was impressed by what it could do, given it was running on an XT at the time.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[Geofa 108]

Gotta take the plane to 5280 ft! ;-)http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8aa8e4...113291f5f4g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[bkircher 0]

I c both of your views and they are both very vaild issues. What needs to happen is that there needs to be a balance between the two. I do think that MS has done a good job of doing that with the past few sims, but i do feel that the basic features of the real world could be implemented better, weather, better ai, better fdes, a bit more complex procedures and things like that. I live in arizona and one of the most annoying things to me is that it will be 6 or 7 at night and it will be just starting the sunset in real life, but in the sim at that time its already almost completely dark. That to me is very annoying.I do hate to complain to the ACES team because i know that they try their best at this to produce a good product. But on the other hand i dont and cant understand why they can make a product that has to have the top of the top of the line computer to run it well, and then post a crummy minimum requirement, when they full well know that it is impossible to run on those settings.

[FlyingsCool 3]

Hi Pat,I don't want to belabor this point. These are all very good questions. Some are easily solvable, some aren't so easily, and some aren't necessarily relevant for what would be the decided upon target audience.I still claim that you are launching into this negative campaign as if an XBox version of FS would replace the PC version. There's nothing that says they can't coexist at the same time. Nothing.Just look at all the Star Wars titles that exist both on XBox and PC.- Purchasing and downloading an addon - not necessary, but doable.- Navigating around the cockpit and clicking on a switch? You can pretty much do that today with an XBox controller. I've seen plenty of XBox games that have cursors to select things or methods of pressing switches.- Zoom in out, rotate, switch views? - I switch views with A, and I could assign either the hat or the shoulder buttons to zooming.- How to configure AI Aircraft? Why? I don't do that today.- How would you repaint your favorite airplane? Why? I bet it could be done, however.- How would you communicate with ATC - Either through multiplayer or a voice activated program, or one of the buttons on the controller- How would you display GPS, Moving Map, Flight Planner - with buttons on the XBox controller- How would you record and playback flights? I'm pretty sure you can do that in a lot of console games - My kids do it for me all the time.- How would you use two or more independent displays? Why? Not the target audience.- How would you use a home cockpit? There are some pretty enterprising people out there, but, really, I'd leave that for the PC version. At the same time, there's all kinds of people out there who are into this sort of thing.- How would you pay 3rd part devs to get licensed for XBox SDK? I don't understand the question, same way as in point one and the same way I paid for XBox live online through the Xbox I imagine.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[FlyingsCool 3]

BTW, here's the link to the page I wrote a while back on how I like to set up my XBox controller for the PC. http://www.flyingscool.com/XBox360_ControllerFSX.htmI use it all the time because it's a heck of a lot easier to set up and use, especially when I am flying across the country on an airplane as a passenger. It gets kind of bulky carrying a yoke and pedals on the airplane with me, and the stewardesses #### about it sometimes.It works very well with TrackIR, too.I'm imagining for Zoom, since I don't need it very often, I would set it up so that I could press 3 and 4 at the same time, then move 6 back and forth to zoom out and in.Since I get asked all the time by people just getting into flight simulation what they need, I set up this page:http://www.fssetup.com (also http://www.flightsimsetup.com and www.fs-setup.com)Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180