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LuisFelizTirado

Help Needed with Flight Dynamics

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Good evening allI have been attempting to piece together a C310R from various places on the net. I started this little exercise in order to get a multi-piston trainer type aircraft into FS2000. Although I continue to tweak here and there, I have a model that I am well pleased with. The reason I attempted this was that I have RW experience with the 310 and it's one of my favorite MEL-piston aircraft.I have, for the last six weeks, off and on, tried to import this into FS2002 and have abysmally failed each time. I just can't seem to get it to behave properly. At the moment, the flight model exhibits a violent, uncontrollable pitching, up and down in repeated, patterns that magnify with each subsequent cycle anytime there is a pitch control input. For example, during T/O at Vyse when pitch is applied to rotate the aircraft begins to uncontrollably porpoise, striking first the NLG followed by the MLG in magnifying cycles until the load limit is achieved and the CRASH!!! message is received.Does anyone have a clue what parameter needs adjusted and what is causing this? I appreciate your help and thank you in advance.BobLEdit: It only exhibits this violent porpoising during takeoff. I just slewed into flight and was able to perform both a Chandelle and a Lazy Eight without noticing any porposising.

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>I have, for the last six weeks, off and on, tried to import >this into FS2002 and have abysmally failed each time. I >just can't seem to get it to behave properly. At the >moment, the flight model exhibits a violent, uncontrollable >pitching, up and down in repeated, patterns that magnify >with each subsequent cycle anytime there is a pitch control >input. For example, during T/O at Vyse when pitch is >applied to rotate the aircraft begins to uncontrollably >porpoise, striking first the NLG followed by the MLG in >magnifying cycles until the load limit is achieved and the >CRASH!!! message is received. >>Does anyone have a clue what parameter needs adjusted and >what is causing this? I appreciate your help and thank you >in advance. Sound like you has used FSEDIT that come with FS2K2 to convert the A/C. If this is the problem you must delete some records that FSedit add to the air file. This records don't work with some cheats in the dinamic. The records are from 1539 to 1547.If this don't work you can send me the a/c I can try to fix.

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I appreciate it. I'll give it a try this evening.BobL

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Oh, wow!!!!That worked wonders....I have two questions left now.1) what were those sections for? AirEd said they were unknown but there was definitely a data content in them so what are they supposed to do?2) It is now exhibiting an error message the first time you switch to a new view. The error message is in a window that has title bar that says "soundlib-fehler" and contains the error message "sound-file ungueltig". The error message has a single button for OK. After you press ok, that view is good for the rest of that flight. It happens for each view. That is when the aircraft is first loading, it generates for the forward view. Then when you cycle through the left_front, left, left_rear, rear, right_rear, right, and right_front views it appears again for each of those views. Like the forward view, it appears only one time for that flight and once ok'd, your good for the rest of the flight.It also appears when you open a popup for the first time. For example, I have lower_electrical panel as panel window 04. When you call for it, up comes the error message the first time.It also appears the first time you change perspective. For example, From Cockpit view to Spot plane. And from Spot Plane to Top Down. etc....Again, in all cases, after the first occurrence is ok'd...it does not re-appear in that flight but after FS2002 is shutdown and re-loaded you see them again.BobL

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>>1) what were those sections for? AirEd said they were >unknown but there was definitely a data content in them so >what are they supposed to do? I don't know. But FDEDIT insert when you modify some parameters like fuel. I supect that may be some matter about cebter of gravity (may be for this reason that a/c react in this form)>2) It is now exhibiting an error message the first time you >switch to a new view. The error message is in a window that >has title bar that says "soundlib-fehler" and contains the >error message "sound-file ungueltig". The error message has >a single button for OK. After you press ok, that view is >good for the rest of that flight. I don't know what is this.

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1) what were those sections for? I think they're an interface between the .air file and the aircraft.cfg for overwrtiting by the aircraft.cfg."soundlib-fehler" - either you're missing a sound file for a gauge ( sorry donot remember who made these gauges ) or FSsound.dll ( an addon .dll for playing gauge sounds. ) Roman(KGRB)

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I have the FSSound.dll. I don't remember where they all came from either as I have assembled different pieces from various sources except that all were freeware from various sources. This is the panel.cfg. gauge00=mooney_bravo!hsi, 286,460,112,110gauge01=BENDIX_KING_RADIO.DME, 501,566,213,50gauge02=BENDIX_KING_RADIO.NAV_COMM_1, 501,399,213,59gauge03=BENDIX_KING_RADIO.NAV_COMM_2, 501,458,213,59gauge04=MV310_Timer, 142,514,57,52gauge05=CFR.Pitot.Indicator, 149,388,20gauge06=BENDIX_KING_RADIO.XPNDR, 501,618,213,50gauge07=CESSNA!Pitch_Trim, 572,724,28,47gauge08=dfd_mbcast1, 6,-2,38gauge09=KINGAIR!Battery, 209,735,15gauge10=KINGAIR!Right Generator, 230,735,15gauge11=KINGAIR!Left Generator, 189,735,15gauge12=KINGAIR!Left Ignition, 126,735,20gauge13=KINGAIR!Right Ignition, 146,737,30gauge14=KINGAIR!AntiIce_Switch, 259,736,35gauge15=KINGAIR!Avionics Switch, 323,735,25,30gauge16=KINGAIR!Pitot_Switch, 296,735,22gauge17=fb.ap.led, 394,351,11gauge18=wiskey-compass, 639,240,64gauge19=Mooney_Bravo!GPS Display Toggle, 479,742,20gauge20=STTurn-Coordgryscr, 193,461,92gauge21=STtwnegtgryscr, 934,406,90gauge22=STopfasigryscr, 193,369,88gauge23=STtwnffgryscr, 933,495,91gauge24=STtwnfuelqtygryscr, 294,568,93gauge25=STaltgryscr, 400,369,91gauge26=STvertspdgryscr, 400,461,95gauge27=bendix_king.vor2GRYSCR, 399,557,92gauge28=310_LowFuel_Left, 107,466,20gauge29=310_OIL_WARN, 127,428,20gauge30=310_LowFuel_Right, 128,466,20gauge31=310Gen.Light, 157,428,20gauge32=Aero_power, 605,715,185gauge33=Cessna172!Flaps, 815,676,34,43gauge34=310DEICEIND, 160,460,28gauge35=310LGEAR, 542,708,15gauge36=310NGEAR, 562,708,15gauge37=310RGEAR, 582,708,15gauge38=GEARLEVERblk, 513,687,20,49gauge39=CFSSTALLOVR_GER, 754,688,47,25gauge40=ST_PBBUTTON2, 532,729,40gauge41=Cessna172!Nav GPS Switch, 519,740,16gauge42=STopotcht1gryscr, 934,584,91gauge43=310gearlck, 562,682,15gauge44=310suction, 672,670,74,62gauge45=c310.fake_gyro_slave, 28,621,108,111gauge46=c337_fuel_sw_aux, 915,681,50,42gauge47=MxvrCessna310RHobbs, 86,491,66gauge48=pa46-350.ra, 198,569,92,91gauge49=pa46-350.rmi, 98,562,91,90gauge50=WRADAR2, 715,517,200,149gauge51=BENGPS_0001, 137,663,252,68gauge52=c310.oat, 948,347,61,60gauge53=hghb_seneca5_pma6000, 501,348,213,50gauge54=BENDIX_KING_RADIO.ADF, 501,516,213,50gauge55=hghb_seneca5_kfc150, 717,462,198,54gauge56=fs_meteo, 501,399,212,268gauge57=cesmap12, 718,359,95gauge58=cesrpm12, 818,359,95gauge59=Mooney_Bravo2!Attitude, 284,348,118Does any of these standout at you as needing a sound file? The strange thing is that while trying to find this, I aliased both the panel and the sounds to the Baron and it still does it.BobL

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Gauges 53 and 55 may be one of the culprits. Also gauge 8.. FS2002 does not like gauges to be installed outside the the window as FS2000 did. Process of elimination should help. Roman(KGRB)

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Hi Bob,The ungueltig sound file is most probably missing from an HGHB gauge. This problem has been around for a while, and is perhaps due to someone placing an airplane or panel in the library without the required sound file for the gauge. Maybe we have been taking the gauge from this source instead of getting the complete package from HGHB.I used to have this problem continuously until I finally localized the original gauge with its sound file and installed it. It seems to me, however, that my problem was with switches and not the KFC150 or PMA6000. Although I seem to remember that the audio panel does make a clicking sound.In any case, Dai Griffiths' mbcast (gauge 8) is certainly not the culprit. As you know, it only provides electrical power to his gauges and does not require a sound file.Best regards.Luis

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LuisUntil I can find this sound file issue, I thought I would add turbocharging to the FS2000 version of this aircraft. I got them in but the aircraft runs too fast based on my RW experience and perception. 32"/2400 @8000 (a high cruise) gets me 220 KIAS which is about 40 too fast. It also gets me a fuel flow that is about 5 gph per engine too high. I tried to use the FS2000 flight tuning that came with the pro edition but it doesn't seem to have any effect on the airfile. I increased parasite drag and reduced thrust but there's no change. No matter what I set those to, I still run too fast and too much gas.I am assuming that something needs to be changed in section 1101 of the airfile but I can't determine what. You got any ideas as to which one? Or is there a tutorial out here somewhere that explains what all those sections are used to adjust for and what to expect from changing the variables contained in each of the sections? I tried to use the info that the author of AirEd put out but it's not clear enough for me to use. I need it in a little simpler form.ThanksBobL

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Hi Bob,I myself am struggling with flight models. Just trashed a Velocity air file that I had spent much time developing. There seems to be a very delicate balancing act going on between thrust and drag. You may have to modify propeller diameter or the corresponding variables on pitch, efficiency, and thrust. Perhaps you should continue trying different values for drag. And perhaps the engine parameters need modification.But, this can be trying and tiresome.Some documents are available containing interesting information for the beginner:- The Uncomplicated Guide to Flight Dynamics by Sam Chin, written for AvSim's Educational Resource Center some years back. For FS98, but interesting;- Flight Dynamics for Microsoft Flight Simulator by Tom Goodrick, should be available at the Abacus web site;- The Hitchhickers guide to airfiles by Rabbijah Guder, available in some libraries.Overall, however, it is a long tough road with no clear concise manual on how to obtain a flyable model.FDE Guy, who sometimes contributes in this forum, seems to provide good and complete solutions. You may want to address the question to him, in the title bar of your thread. Also, please search this forum for his contributions, as they may give you some indications.Good luck.Luis

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LuisThose references were great. I got it running like I think it ought to. I'm going to fly it for awhile now and see how well I think it mimics the RW. Now, on to find that missing sound file.....BobL

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Glad you are on the right track, Bob. For your information, and for anyone else who might be interested, Gerry Beckwith has a very interesting web site dedicated to flight models:http://users.erols.com/gwbeckwith/He has put together a fascinating Excel spreadsheet that, according to him, will create a precise flight model. You may want to take a look.As for the missing sound, it was a while ago, so I do not have it clearly in my mind. However, I notice that my sound folder contains the following:HGHB_click2.wavHGHB_click3.wavhghb_rsw_cl1.wavhghb_rsw_cl2.wavAs it is only a click sound, you may just want to take any similar file and rename it to one of these and see if that works. I also have a simple click.wav (and click2.wav and click3.wav), but do not really know which if any of these is required by the HGHB gauge.Best regards.Luis

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