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Guest Fabio Miguez

Glass cockpit design

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Hi can anyone help me or point me in the right direction. Im interested in building glass cockpits, project magenta style.Im id say an advanced beginner in C/C++ programming scene and would like to try and build airbus style glass cockpits that can be used on seperate screens to create a home cockpit style set up.any ideas would helpkind regardsDave LongAITG

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Do you already know with what you wanna draw? E. g. GDI, GDI+, OpenGL, DirectX?

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Well i havent thought that far ahead as of yet. I wouldn't be phased by working with any of the above.With the soon to be released fs04 acof I would probably go for DX it depended really on time and effort.Do you have any ideas or what would you decide on. Whats Project magenta built with?kind regardsps Thats the main reason for me posting in here to get a discussion going so that I know what im geting myself in to...Dave Long

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>Do you have any ideas or what would you decide on.I, personally, *would* go for DX (I'd really love to use it for my gauges, but I am too dumb).GDI is easy, but is not ultra fast and has limited capabilities, e. g. no anti alias etc.GDI+ is not very recommendable, since it is damn slow. Looks good though, with anti alias and other nice things.Don't quite know about OpenGL, might be a choice, no idea.I personally would, as said above, prefer DX.>Whats Project magenta built with?No idea also, sorry. ;-)Etienne :-wave

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Well i just jumped right in and started downloading the DX9 sdk. All 222mb of it. thank god for broadband!Well i'll see, I have a half decent understanding of VC++. Just having a look at DX9 because the new FS04 ACOF uses DX9 so I thought might as well be as upto date as FS04.I know a little bit of opengl.How slow do you reckon GDI is? When you think that i'm building these panels/gauges to sit on their own monitors on a networked group of computers and have the FS scenery on a seperate 3 display system. So it shouldn't really matter about the anti alias and all the other graphic goodies out there. The only thing on the screen would be the gauge.Dave Long

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Yeah, ok, if you really have this thing networked and really one PC has only to care about one single gauge, you can kick in and take even GDI+, if you want.Well, GDI doesn't use hardware acceleration (like GDI+), as far as I know, and that's why it ain't as fast as DX for example. It anyway is sufficient for vector drawn gauges etc. If there's just one mega huge gauge on one monitor, even the lack of anti alias ain't a problem, since the gauge will be, as just said, somewhat big.Etienne :-wave

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Yeah what i have in mind is for the seperate gauges to sit on say a 15" monitor, so they aren't gonna be too big and they don't have to completely fill the screen.Basically im aiming for something like an airbus cockpit plane and simple 2 maybe 3 computer run gauges on their own system. Then The main powerful machine running a matrox parhelia with 3 screen display showing just the forward and side views the out of the windows views you see.Dave Long

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Hello Dave.What do you mean by "...the new FS04 ACOF uses DX9..."? MSFS has used DirectX for it's core engine for quite some time now. The gauges in the new FS04 seem to be all XML, including their GPS. Go figure.....Project Magenta uses OpenGL.

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The sim as a whole uses DX9. DX9 comes with FS04. I know becuase im a beta tester. I know that the gauges use XML, what i meant was, as the sim uses DX9 i might as well start there!answer your question??Dave Long

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Dave, what sort of instruments are you lloking at duplicating? I have *some* stuff from the 744 if you are interested in that aircraft.

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Well eventually i'd like to build more or less a full cockpit. Im definately interested in the commercial jets. Id originally thought about the airbus, becuase i already have a good amount of background info. But info isn't too hard to come by these days.What kind of stuff do you have. Original intruments and the like?The 744 would be very interesting to put together, i'am a fan of the big bird.get back to me anything would be useful...Kind regardsDave Long

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As you are a FS2004 beta tester, maybe you can answer my question:Do the vector gauges (drawn with GDI or other) appear in the virtual cockpit?Thanks.

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I have developed a radar gauge, which can be found on my web site, and it is fully vector drawn, like the FS2002 GPS. It works perfect, but when I switch to VC mode, it is not drawn. I have also developed a ND gauge for my Airbus panels, which uses both bitmaps (FS2002 SDK macros) and vectorial drawings for TCAS information. In VC mode, the bitmaps appear, but not the vector drawings.I know it is a limitation of FS2002, and I'dlike to know if it has been corrected in FS2004.Thanks for any info !!

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Its hard to say as its still in beta, 1 thing i will say is that your a320 panel has compatability problems in its current state. Thats about all im permitted to say. With microsofts NDA, legal stuff etc.I will get back to you on whether or not vector drawn gauges work in the VC if i can...Dave Long

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Hello Eric and Dave.Sorry for my delay in providing you with answers. I moved back to Brasil just yesterday and today, so was caught in the midst of that.Eric, yes, vector gauges using either the GDI, GDI+, and DirectX all show up in the VC in FS9.Dave, to draw vector gauges using DirectX, it does not matter what version of DirectX is running, for the stuff you will be using is very basic, as far as DirectX programming is concerned. What I mean to say is that if you had done any vector gauges for FS8 using DirectX, they work just the same in FS9. So you are not using anything that DirectX9 has to offer over DirectX 8. DirectX 7, well, that's another story. Back then Direct3D and DirectDraw were two separate entities. With DirectX 8.0 and above, they have been joined and are referred to as DirectX Graphics by MS.Off the bat, the disadvantage of DirectX is that it has no pre-made drawing functions such as ellipses, arcs, etc. But it is extremelly fast.GDI is the opposite, a relatively slow engine render (no access to hardware acceleration, which is all DirectX Graphics is about), but great drawing functions ready to use.And GDI+ is the GDI with antialiasing capabilities, alpha channels, and gradient brushes. All that to end up being about 5 times slower than the GDI itself.I hope I have made my ideas clear now, but if not, or if you'd like to discuss this further, please ask. I am studying DirectX as we speak (write/read ;-)), so once in a while I run into some pretty interesting stuff.

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>Thats about all im permitted to say.Duh! As far as I remember... Are we really...? :-eek

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I have read somewhere in this forum that GDI+ uses the hardware acceleration. Regarding what you say, this information looks false.Can someone tell me if GDI+ is hardware accelerated or not?Eric

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Yeah... I also seem to remember something like this.Anyway, dude, if this is correct or not, fact is, it is damn slow. :-rollEtienne :-wave

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I used GDI+ on my ATR gauges. It's actually about 5 to 10 times *faster* than the old GDI gauges. So GDI+ is the way to go.Regards,HansDreamfleet / Eurowings Professional

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Hello Hans.This is shaping up to be an interesting topic. Me and two other developers tested the same gauges, with the same vectors, drawn in bpth GDI and then GDI+. All of us got to pretty much the same results, GDI+ was always slower by an average of 5 times. So maybe there is a difference in the way we are using it.Could you ellaborate a bit on it, possibly with code snippets? I am willing to show you what my code looks like when using both the GDI and the GDI+, and perhaps we will be able to solve this "mistery".

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I can only agree to this one.RegardsChris Koegler>I used GDI+ on my ATR gauges. It's actually about 5 to 10>times *faster* than the old GDI gauges. So GDI+ is the way to>go.>>Regards,>Hans>Dreamfleet / Eurowings Professional

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Hi Fabio,I'm not sure about the difference in performance between GDI and GDI+, but as you may remember from our phone conversation, this is not only the reason True Display XP is not using any Windows API, but also why there is more than just a drawing API but also a gauge development framework for it. The limitations are not only in the api, but in the way FS handles the ressources to blit them on the panel. Now if only I can figure out a practical way to make it a vendor oriented package...Best,

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