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Observations on 128MB video card

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Hi allAfter some teething troubles, I've got my GF3Ti200 up and running. It has replaced a GF2 GTS 32MB.The difference is astounding. I don't get any more FPS (it's locked at 25 anyway) but everything is now maxed, and best of all the purple squares I used to get all over the landscape while FS painted in the textures have completely disappeared. I can now run at 1280/32bit with 4X AA, and using NVMax I've been able to add a few other visual tweaks. This card handles it all with ease - I suspect it must be the extra memory, and I'd heartily recommend it to anyone thinking of upgrading.Cheers

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What other system specs do you have? I'm thinking of upgrading, but don't know whether to spend the money on a graphics card or a new processor.Richard.

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WinXPAMD 1.4512MB RAMGF3 Ti20019" Diamondtron Monitor (the best part of my system!)

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I doubt it's so much the extra memory (although I'm sure it certainly helps), but the improved memory bandwidth is giving you the magic shot in the arm.I'm gonna have to score me a GF3 or 4 here soon. I have the same GF2 GTS as you did.J

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Are you sure its a Geforce 3 Ti200?? I'm just asking because, Geforce3 only have 64mg (but memory efficient, compare to a Geforce 2). I'm running a Geforce 3 at the same setting at your, and its running, no need for a Geforce4 yet :-).Benoit Picard:-wave

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There are 128MB GF3s too...It seems 128MB makes a lot of difference. I can't use 4x FSAA on my Ti500 64MB, the FPS becomes too low.

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Yea, Leadtek makes a 128MB GeForce3 TI200.Fs2002 isnt really as demanding on the video card as sims like Fly and FlyII are. I'm still running my old origional 32MB DDR Radeon, and there's no problems with it, I DO, however, have 768MB of DDR 2100 installed, and an Athlon 1.8+ and it runs liquidly with all the detail sliders at 100%I mean, FS has never been a graphically intense game, compared to some of the insane 1st person shooters they have out now. The biggest hit comes from just supporting the physics, weather, dynamics, terrain, etc, there's egregious amounts of DATA there. The only time your card would probably come into play are those areas where the scenery is ultra dense (IE: New York City). I mean, its important to have a GOOD card, but you dont have to go overkill with them .....for FS at least.So, spare your expensive video boards for sims like FlyII. You're best off getting yourself some higher throughput RAM (like some DDR 2100/2400) or a faster processor.

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Some good points... I have to admit I only bought the 128MB version by chance (wasn't even aware they existed.) It was only

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>No, I think its the extra memory. >>Avoid AGP texturing = Better Performance Yeah, disable your AGP who needs it! And you should replace your AGP card with a PCI card, actually if you can still find an old visa local bus mother board that will be even better! And rip out all the extra ram modules you have as they just get in the way and slow everything down....:-lol :-lol :-lolAre you running a P350 or somthing? As that advice will kill the performance of any decent up to date machine.Paul

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>Hi all >>After some teething troubles, I've got my GF3Ti200 up and >running. It has replaced a GF2 GTS 32MB. >>The difference is astounding. I don't get any more FPS (it's >locked at 25 anyway) but everything is now maxed, and best >of all the purple squares I used to get all over the >landscape while FS painted in the textures have completely >disappeared. I can now run at 1280/32bit with 4X AA, and >using NVMax I've been able to add a few other visual tweaks. >This card handles it all with ease - I suspect it must be >the extra memory, and I'd heartily recommend it to anyone >thinking of upgrading. >>Cheers I Damion,Thanks for posting your results! I almost went for one of these when they first appeared but am holding off any purchase untill fall.From all the benchmarking I've seen of this card it runs a tad slower than its 64mb sibling which is quite common when comparing cards of different amounts of memory running at the same speed, But the higher res and 4xAA is exactlty where this card will shine as the 4xAA needs the extra headroom (memory) and now you've got it. :) Which card did you get and how much?Paul

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Hi PaulI have to say in defence of Cornclose that until I installed my new card, I found that by disabling AGP in dxdiag I got better performance in FS. PS Thanks for your help in an earlier thread with getting my new card up and running; the blurring I mentioned was due to a fault in the hardware as you suspected.

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>Hi Paul >>I have to say in defence of Cornclose that until I installed >my new card, I found that by disabling AGP in dxdiag I got >better performance in FS.Yeah, I hope he understands that I am just ribbing on em. :) Old hardware and old advice is all I am saying. try disabling AGP now and see what happens! :) Selecting 2,4,8,16 or on even some MB's 32 mb aperture within the BIOS and that will kill AGP, many 32MB cards and older MBs did not handle AGP very well and that for the most part is no longer the case. on my system for instance if the AGP is set to less than 128mb performance in D3D and openGL will drop by 15% and more. On my chaintek-DDR board going all the way up to 256MB was the best, trying 256 is also what is recommended by Nvidia in thier GF3 FAQ, But as is the case performance will vary between older and newer hardware.If someone wants to give Advice on hardware settings it is best to qualify it with what hardware that advice is working on, as many folks will read way to much into that "advice" and mess up thier perfectly good machine. :(what is enteresting is how the 1x ,2x or 4x AGP is still not being used properly on many MB's. however 8x AGP will finally be making its apperance on MBs and Vid cards and I am looking forward to it. >PS Thanks for your help in an earlier thread with getting my >new card up and running; the blurring I mentioned was due to >a fault in the hardware as you suspected.Any time Damion. :)Was that also a 128mb card?Paul

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Your observations mirror exactly mine, which I've posted here before. The memory footprint of FS2002 when max or near max settings are used is obviously very large. The extra 64mb of frame buffer makes a noticeable difference.Viva La Difference!

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>...trying 256 is also what is recommended by Nvidia in thier GF3 FAQ,

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What, are you trying to say that AGP texturing is the be-all and end-all for performance ? Nope. I don't think so. Why are we seeing vid cards with all this extra memory then ? If AGP was all it was cracked up to be, why bother with any local video memory. After all, we'd only need a tad less than 22mb for 1600x1200x32 with three frame buffers.Its been well debated in the past (and probably still is, hell, here we are again) that AGP was not necessarily the way to. Marketing hype from Intel again. x(Lets drop all the 128mb cards, and the 64mb ones, and for that matter, the 32mb ones aswell while we're at it, and rely on the good 'old' AGP bus to bring everything grinding to a halt. :-lolThere is proof everywhere if you were to look, that the same systems, one with a 64mb card, one with a 128mb card, with everything else being equal, that in a texture intensive application ('erm, like FS2002) the 128mb card will produce better results. Fact. :(Store all your textures to draw the frame(s) in local video memory and things will be a lot happier. Use AGP bus, things won't be quite so good.Avoid AGP texturing = Better PerformanceLets have that in my signature...Chris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

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What the AGP aperture does is sets the MAXIMUM amount of system ram for use as AGP texture memory. Setting this to 128mb on a 256mb system is potentially throttling it :-hang but I doubt it would get this out of hand with FS2002.Chris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

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Its good to hear your success with the GF3 Ti200 Damian. Let me recommend that others reading this however wait a few days and check out the performance of the GF4 Ti4200. This card should be extremely inexpensive relatively speaking ($150-$180 range), yet it blows performance out of the water compared to even the highest end GF3 Ti500.This may not make much of a difference for Flight Simulator specifically as almost any current generation GF3 or GF4 will run FS quite well if the CPU is powerful enough, but as we've found out before most of us don't just run FS. With the GF4 Ti4200, almost any other game out there will run so much better compared to any GF3. And FS most certainly can benefit as well at the highest resolutions and AA settings.Just about every single card maker out there will release their Ti4200 based cards within the next week. They are quite the steal.Take care, http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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A GF4 for only $180? *sigh* If only we were so lucky in the UK. Long live inflated prices for hardware, eh!?Always good to hear from you in any thread, Elrond.Cheers

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>>...trying 256 is also what is recommended by Nvidia in thier GF3 FAQ,<>>Paul, >>I'm surprised at this size AGP and your setting of 128MB >with 256MB total RAM. >>My understanding is that the AGP apature is an amount of RAM >set aside for the graphics card; therefore if you have 256MB >RAM and set the AGP port to 128 surely you only have 128MB >of main RAM left to run the rest of FS. >>Or am I missing something here? >>Rgds Spock? is that U? Sorry :)Yeah, the AGP aperture setting does not work that way, it doesn't set memory "aside" as we may think.The AGP bus will only use system RAM when it needs to, that is when an application needs to store textures that do not fit on the video adapters memory, So instead of needing to keep reading the hardrive for testures This highly improves performance, since it does not have to load the textures each time they are needed. Instead, they are stored already in system memory which makes it much faster to display them.Some older hardware and even some current harware combos do not implement AGP very well and need to have a small AGP aperture size (32) to clear up stuttering and other problems.Here is a direct quote from Nvidias GF3 FAQ:--------------------------------------------------------------------"It should be set to half your system RAM if possible, and if not it should be set at some point below or equal to the amount of RAM that you have. However, it is possible to experience speed advantages of 2-3 fps from setting the AGP Aperture size to 256 regardless of the amount of RAM that you have, and there are some games that may have visual problems fixed by setting the AGP Aperture size to 256.Beware that setting the AGP Aperture size too low (below 32) will actually disable AGP which will cause a speed decrease, although stability problems may be solved - see the 'My GeForce keeps on locking up. How can I fix it?' question for more information.There are also some programs that have problems (stuttering for example) when the aperture size is set too high. Experiment and see which setting is best for your system and programs.It's possible that if you set your AGP Aperture size to 256 you will be able to load the 64MB texture test in 3DMark2000.You can only change this in your BIOS setup - it may be called something slightly different, so look for a setting that is measured in MB and can be set to values such as 16, 32, 64, 128 and 256. Different motherboards allow different settings: my motherboard for example only allows me to set it to 64 or 256."----------------------------------------------------------------------I hope this clears things up for you.Paul

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Just to make this clear, I never said a smaller AGP is "not good or better" on >your< machine or ones like yours, as it is an old fact that some machines just cant run very well on an AGP bigger than 32mb some cant even run at all with certain combos of old hardware. The advice I passed on is industry standard advice that can be backed up by documented Fact, Benchmarks as well as the market and it works and is used daily.>What, are you trying to say that AGP texturing is the be-all >and end-all for performance ? The better question is why are all BIOS updates still allowing it? Or why do graphic card manufacturers recommend it? To make their cards run slower?>Nope. I don't think so. Why >are we seeing vid cards with all this extra memory then ? Because that

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Hey Damian,Ah yes... You and me both brother, you and me both. Here in Canada that $150-$180 is really $231-$278 (at todays rates - who knows tomorrow :-(). And of course, if buying locally, lets not forget the 15% tax on top of that ($266-$320). If buying over the net still within Canada but out of province, 8% of that is dropped, but theres still 7% tax added ($248-$298). If buying in the states online and cross-boarder shipping, well the full 15% is back (plus the dreadful exchange rate). Yippie! If you're not a hardware dealer in Canada you always get the short end of the stick compared to Americans who can be only five miles across the boarder! (unless you are a native Indian - then theres a full tax exempt status! :-mad).Good to see you too Damian. I'm happy to hear of your satisfaction with your system - there's nothing better than that in our hobby.Take care,http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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>What the AGP aperture does is sets the MAXIMUM amount of >system ram for use as AGP texture memory. Setting this to >128mb on a 256mb system is potentially throttling it :-hang >but I doubt it would get this out of hand with FS2002. >>Chris E >http://website.lineone.net/~flightsimuk >Avoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)You have no clue budeeee!

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