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Railways in FS2002

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I've realized the railways lines for my Country (Italy), with the parameter VTPTextureId 2, but aren't too visible.So i would like to modify the width of the lines, and the texture used.How may I enlarge the lines? Witch texture is used by FS2002 to design the railways?Thanks for your answers.Ciao

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Hi Francesco!We both (and some others too) have same problem. FS2002 does not have such texture for railways and it is really weird, how did the miss it... But there is a solution I think in making own texture. So we'll have to take let say hiwayssu.bmp to BMP2000, get alpha and non alpha texture out, then correct it with some good bitmap (maybe copy-paste numerous times the bitmap 0257xxx.bmp or v_railroad.bm?) and that save to texture folder next to bgl with roads. But I am little worried about how it will show in FS. Lines of width of 6m (normal 2 lane road here) are just too distorted and railway width should be even narrower to be more or less natural.I think MS was in rush with time so they didn't prepare railways, they put also too basic textures for roads and they have jagged edges on the ground...Best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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Hi Goran,MS did not forget to make railroad textures because it makes no sense.The main problem here are not the textures used for the railways but the resolution of the ground textures in FS2002. The resolution is ~4-5m per pixel.If you keep in mind that this is the width of a single railtrack, than you will see nothing more than a line on the ground width a width of 1 pixel in FS2002 (like the screenshot of Francesco).If you want to recognize the image of your hand-made railroad-texture on the ground then you will have to make your railway 20 or 30 meters wide, which looks not very realistic.Regards, Heinrich

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Are the VTP lines also restricted to that resolution? I have the idea that for example the shorelines have a better resolution.Maybe the way MS did it in their Oshkosh is the best solution then. They just used a brownish like texture (dirt) that gives some sort of illusion of railways.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Hi!Unfortunatelly VTP lines do have resolution problems. I tried to change resolution and it's like I didn't change anything at all. Arno, maybe You have better solution? I also agree that railways of nearly realistic width would be 1 pixel wide and with a lot of jaggies. But had anyone tried not to use 256x256pix large bitmap but something bigger? Arno, Netherlands has also some railways, how do You solve this problem?Best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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Hi Goran,For the resolution thing, on the polygons we tried a higher resolution, but FS never takes a mipmap that is bigger then 256x256. So there is no fix for that (hopefully Fs2004 will allow higher resolutions).And for our Dutch scenery, we are still building in the VTP lines code into our design tool, so we have not tested it on big scale yet. I am afraid we will then encounter the same problem :(. At the moment roads (and railroads) are still in the old SCASM code. We were planning to use a custom texture on those lines. But we haven't thought about the resolution yet.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Hi Arno!I have also tried to make some custom textures which look great in Photoshop but in FS... I almost cried to death :'(. Too many jaggies, thin lines on the sides were or were not... results came allmost unpredictable.You are saying, You are making a special program for NL2003 that could draw lines, roads... for large areas? I wonder if it will be available to public :).Best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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It's the same program that we used for NL2000 v1 and v2. It has a database that contains all the polygons, lines and macros. At the moment we are changing the program so it creates BGLC (VTP/LWM) code instead of SCASM code.The bad news, for you, is that it only works in the Netherlands, because it has been made especially for that area.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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>Hi Goran, >>MS did not forget to make railroad textures because it makes >no sense. >The main problem here are not the textures used for the >railways but the resolution of the ground textures in >FS2002. The resolution is ~4-5m per pixel. >If you keep in mind that this is the width of a single >railtrack, than you will see nothing more than a line on the >ground width a width of 1 pixel in FS2002 (like the >screenshot of Francesco). >>If you want to recognize the image of your hand-made >railroad-texture on the ground then you will have to make >your railway 20 or 30 meters wide, which looks not very >realistic. >>Regards, Heinrich Doesn't that apply to roads then too? Most roads in FS are also too wide becuse of the limitation in accuracy (and M$ still modeled them anyway :))

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Hi All.From the MS Oshgosh scenery addon:"3. Known IssuesThe EAA AirVenture Oshkosh Scenery Add-On is not supported by Microsoft Product Support Services.However, listed below are several known issues of which you should be aware.3.1 Railroad TracksThe arrival procedures specified in the NOTAM instruct pilots to follow railroad tracks from the town of Ripon to Oshkosh. Flight Simulator 2002 does not support displaying detailed railroad track textures so we have used a dirt road texture instead. You should be able to distinguish the dark brown lines easily from the air and follow them to Wittman Regional Airport."I believe that MS did exclude the tracks from the default because of the resolution default of (approx ) 4.8 meters/pixel.Dick

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This is totally shot in the dark, but how far is graphic engine of MS Train Simulator from FS? Any possibility to ###### something from our Train Sim buddies? Perhaps at least some objects... Ted

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Hi Dick,So, if MS used dirt roads to design railroad tracks, the new question is:witch number in VTPTextureId have i to put to design dirt roads instead of railways?The various instructions say AIRPORT SCASM VTPTextureId( 0 minor road 3 )( 1 minor road 3 ) 2 major road 0 3 minor road 1 4 railway 2 5 river 3 - coastline 4but i suppose that "minor road" are always paved roads (as in the picture of my first post). Suggestions?Ciao

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If I remember correct, the dirt texture is somewhere in the terraintexture.cfg file. Just have a look there and find the correct number for it. Then you can use that in your VTP source.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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I've found that in terraintexture.cfg:[Texture.1161] // dirt / 1 lane / undivided medianType=3Size=4Textures=dirtroadhw.bmp,dirtroadhw.bmp,dirtroadsu.bmp,dirtroadsu.bmp,dirtroadsu.bmp,dirtroadsu_lm.bmpIs it correct to write VTPTextureId 1161 ???Thanks

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The number in the VTPTextureId is pointing to the line (+1) in the texture-list whitch is at the end of your *.asm-file. If you give "VTPTextureId 2" then you selected the 3. texture in the list. In the example below this would be the texture number 1160. If you want to use texture number 1161 then you should change the line VTPTextureName "1160"to VTPTextureName "1161";Example ; --------------------------------------------------------------------TextureStart label word VTPTextureListHeader 5, TextureIndexStart, TextureDataStart, TextureDataEndTextureIndexStart label word VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_0, texturemark_1 VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_1, texturemark_2 VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_2, texturemark_3 VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_3, texturemark_4 VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_4, texturemark_5TextureDataStart label word texturemark_0 label word VTPTextureName "1162" VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4 texturemark_1 label word VTPTextureName "1158" VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4 texturemark_2 label word VTPTextureName "1160" VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4 texturemark_3 label word VTPTextureName "1025" VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4 texturemark_4 label word VTPTextureName "1059" VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4 texturemark_5 label wordTextureDataEnd label word; --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hi Francesco.MS used the number "1145" for the texture, and it appears to be Layer31. That will show it under layer 32 ( major roads ), and the same layer31 as minor roads. I believe it will show on top of minor roads, as the rails are later in the data stream.Dick

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Hi Francesco!Your answer is partially correct. At the end of Your lines You should have something like this:

TextureIndexStart		label		word  VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_0, texturemark_1  VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_1, texturemark_2  VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_2, texturemark_3  VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_3, texturemark_4  VTPTextureListEntry TextureDataStart, texturemark_4, texturemark_5;TextureDataStart  label		wordtexturemark_0	   label		word	VTPTextureName "1058"	VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4texturemark_1	   label		word	VTPTextureName "1061"	VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4texturemark_2	   label		word	VTPTextureName "1025"	VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4texturemark_3	   label		word	VTPTextureName "1064"	VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4texturemark_4	   label		word	VTPTextureName "1030"	VTPTextureType 2, 0, 0, 4texturemark_5	   label		wordTextureDataEnd	label		word

So You need to change one of texture name to 1060 (or if You wish "railwi.bmp;railway.bmp;railway.bmp;railway.bmp;raillm.bmp") and then You use reference to this texture wherewer You wish in Your ASM file. So in above example, texture name 1061 is having reference number 1, so You use VTPTextureId 1,0 where You want to use it:

....datamark_v0		label		word  VTPDataArea 1, 1, 0, 0  VTPLayer 32, 0			   <--- layer for railroad, 32?  VTPNumTexturesInLayer 1, 0  VTPTextureId 1, 0			<---- reference number  VTPPolyCount 1, 0   VTPPolyMethod2 09, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  4089, 1,  4100, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  4089, 1,  4100, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  4089, 0,  4100, 0 ...

I also strongly suggest You to combine lines with same texture id, same layer and same LOD13 quadrant because if You have many similar line starts, You can get into troubles.So not recommened code:

....;===> first line  VTPDataArea 1, 1, 0, 0  VTPLayer 32, 0			     VTPNumTexturesInLayer 1, 0  VTPTextureId 1, 0			  VTPPolyCount 1, 0   VTPPolyMethod2 05, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  4089, 1,  4100, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  4089, 1,  4100, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  4089, 0,  4100, 0 ... ;===> second line  VTPDataArea 1, 1, 0, 0  VTPLayer 32, 0			     VTPNumTexturesInLayer 1, 0  VTPTextureId 1, 0			  VTPPolyCount 1, 0  VTPPolyMethod2 25, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  6782, 1,  8700, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  6782, 1,  8700, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  6782, 0,  8700, 0 ...;===> third line  VTPDataArea 1, 1, 0, 0  VTPLayer 32, 0			     VTPNumTexturesInLayer 1, 0  VTPTextureId 1, 0			  VTPPolyCount 1, 0   VTPPolyMethod2 12, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  6049, 1,  12100, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  6049, 1,  12100, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  6049, 0,  12100, 0 ...

This could be merged together as (recommended code ):

....;===> first line  VTPDataArea 1, 1, 0, 0  VTPLayer 32, 0			     VTPNumTexturesInLayer 1, 0  VTPTextureId 1, 0			  VTPPolyCount 3, 0			  <--- note number of lines having same texture!   VTPPolyMethod2 05, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  4089, 1,  4100, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  4089, 1,  4100, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  4089, 0,  4100, 0 ... ;===> second line  VTPPolyMethod2 25, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  6782, 1,  8700, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  6782, 1,  8700, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  6782, 0,  8700, 0 ... ;===> third line  VTPPolyMethod2 12, 1, 0 VTPWidePoint  6049, 1,  12100, 0VTPWidePointWidth 1VTPWidePoint  6049, 1,  12100, 0VTPWidePointWidth VTPWidePoint  6049, 0,  12100, 0 ...

Wish You luck and a lot of patience!Best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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Hi Falko!I am sorry but You are mistaken about referencing textures. If You use TextureID 0,0 then according to Your post it will point and use texture with name 1162. Texture with ID 3 will point to texture name 1025 and so on..Regarding Your SCM2VTP I would have some comments.* Can You make some optimization of code? If I have a straight line (really straight line like railway) and it crosses let say 4 LOD13 quadrants, SCM2VTP gives me a lot of points whereas maximum of 6 would be enough. Why 6? You need 3 to start the line, 1 to end and 2 more points one point away from the beggining and end to make line not tappered. And I would do optimization like this: take three points which are next to each other. Calculate dx and dy between two points and if they are same, remove the middle point.I make roads based on SCA file from FSSC. Yesterday it produced me ASM file of approx 170kb long and at the end it was missing some parts (it started missing parts near texture naming and down to the end).* I see that sometimes it has troubles, mainly with points to close together. But I got also some lines which I never drew, for example in asm file approx 120kB long, there was a river crossing 5 LOD13 quadrants and totally straight...* Next thing and I can allmost say I beg for this is if You can include commnet line just before Area() instruction in SCA file. Let me explain this a little bit. I have area of 60x60km and have let say 30 lines there. Allmost with no exceptions textures are wrong so I must go into FS and back again numerous times to find which line is for which road to put there appropriate texture and to pinpoint the ends of lines making them not tappered with additional points. So it would be really much easier If I can have comment line (in FSSC is this also the name of macro/road/river..) before VTPDataPoint instruction.* The last thing is a wish. Can You add those two additional antitapper points to the beggining and to the end?I hope I do not bother You too much with these suggestions Falko.Best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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Francesco has made this railway lines for Italy available for download at his website. I've installed it and it looks quite good, a real small file too. He has many other great files available for free download. To get the translated version of his page search for aliditalia on google and select the translate page option.

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Thank you William for the support of my web site.I've not yet updated the railways with the suggestions received in this topic... perhaps next week-end i'll work on it!Ciao

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Hi, Goran, The new version of AutoAsm I am working on has enhanced VTP support. You can draw multiple lines of different brightness, and set up the brightness level to create specific VTP lines such as roads or streams, while at the same time drawing polygons to generate water for lakes and coastline trimming. Water polygons also have assignable VTP lines to create shorelines with surf. The program covers a large area, though currently limited to 20 LOD8 squares - that limit could easily be increased. I hope to release it around the end of January. Best regards, Chris

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Hi Chris!Thank You for notifying me but actually I must admit that I have never succeded to run Your program. It has great tendency to crash and maybe the most important thing is I do not like to install such programs on disk C. I have all FlightSim supporting programs installed on disk E. But I will try it again when You will release the update.Best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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Hi Goran! Sorry to hear you had problems. Some of the earlier versions would fail with complex images, but the later ones are much better (the last was just before Christmas). Now AutoAsm can handle very complex images (includimg polygons within polygons within polygons!) without problems. You should be able to run it on any drive. The only requirement is that you keep the C:program filesautoasm directory intact, because that's where the program saves all the ini files. If that directory doesn't exist the program will fail - maybe that's why you had problems. You could wait until the new version is out in a couple of weeks. If you still had any problems I'd be very grateful if you'd let me know, as I'm sure we can work out any problems that might arise. Best regards, Chris

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