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Ground2K

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I have uploaded Ground2K_V1_1.zip in FS2002 utilities library.This program allows to create LWM/VTP polygons and lines.Polygons can be concave and cross LOD13 or LO8 borders.I have noted some troubles with 8 bits Bmp; I think (not verified) that some utilities do not respect the internal format/values.I hope this program will help in designing your scenes.Christian

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Hello Christian!Thank you very much for this program!It seems to have a very professional look and works great! In 45 minutes I already covered a big area with lakes. And multiple LOD 13 areas or even LOD 8....this is great.All the best,Tatu

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I also thank you for "Ground2k", but would like to read some documentation or help file/tutorial . Is this perhaps yet coming?Ted

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>I also thank you for "Ground2k", but would like to read some >documentation or help file/tutorial . Is this perhaps yet >coming? >Ted Hmm...there was a document. About 4mb, both in French (I guess) and in English. In the folder you installed the program.Tatu

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Thousand pardons.... How could I miss that? Time to wear glasses :) Ted

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>Thousand pardons.... How could I miss that? I know....the program looks so great and makes you want to try immediately. :-)Tatu

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Im at a loss. I can either have resampled polygon textures with beautiful autogen created with annotator but no LWM. Or I can have VTP1 Custom textures with LWM and Landclass autogen. But How can I have Custom polygons with Landclass autogen, land water mask and also have the placement control of autogen using annotator for photo realistic control.Nevermind I figured it out mipmapped dxt1 textures with Alpha channel.Dennis

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Hi Christian,Thanks for the program, I'm really looking forward to using it, but since I've installed it it could not run.It displays a dialog box: "The language DLL 'VB6FR.DLL' could not be found". Being programmer myself, I thought that my system was missing the VB6 runtime libraries, but a quick look revealed that they were properly installed.Nevertheless, I've dowloaded the french version from the following link, but still no avail:http://www.chez.com/cavemania/prog_pc_igor...B6RunTimeFR.exeThanks in advance :-),--Daniel R. Careri------------EDITED: Nevermind. Clicking on the icon directly on the program folder works. It's the shortcut generated in the Start menu the one that causes the problem.

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Ground2K looks to be a very promicing program and I hope I can figure it out but I'm getting off to a rocky start with my understanding of the document that discribes its usage. Clicking the "New" icon brings up the setup window for the new file and entering a project name is the easy part and entering the image is pretty easy as well but how in Gods name am I supposed to know the coordinates, (in decimal degrees), for the NW and SE corners of an image?The resampler tool works in the same manner to place images and it's very frustrating for me to perform trig functions that I don't understand to determine CellX and CellY dimensions and that's why I don't mess with the resampler tool. While Ground2K requires decimal degree coordinate information, (dd.ddddddddddd), I'm having to uses a coordinate converter to convert the FS displayed degree, minute, and decimal minute, (dd mm.mm), and doing this adds to the difficulty. Wouldn't it be much easier to just type the FS displayed format with a program function to convert the format automaticly?My image is 512x512 pixels in size and covers exactly Four LOD 13 Areas, (6, 2 - 7, 2 - 6, 3 - 7, 3), within Cell 65, 81 with it's center vertex at coordinates: N61 29.43 - W149 25.72 and this is almost the exact center vertex of the Four LOD 13 Areas as well.To determine the proper position of my image, do I have to use CellGrid to display the Cell and Areas on the FS ground surface and then slew in top down view to the exact NW and SE corners of the LOD 13 Areas recording TWO separate coordinates and then convert both coordinates to decimal degree format? Doing it like that is super time consuming and I'm not so sure that technique is accurate either.Any ideas on a easier way?ThanksKenEdit: Do I mis-understand the developed intent of Ground2K? Is this program specificly intended to place images into FS? My only intent is to define a lake area with shoreline, LWM/VTP, but not to place an image into FS.

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Hi Ken.Christian may reply to this ( I hope ).I think he developed this with the original idea of using maps as reference images. I can see how with a screenshot, it would be difficult to 'place' the corners.Some online and most offline map programs, aren't too hard to get the corner references of a saved bitmap.The interface is different, and Christian has a lot of things going on in there. I haven't nearly mastered it, yet. It could really use a 'hand-holding' tutorial to get us up to speed on all it's options.It's a complex program, and really in a beta stage, as LWMDraw was for a while. :)Chris Wright will soon have a new version of AutoASM out. And that might be better suited for your needs.. as you just need a centerpoint Lat-Long, and the size of the bitmap, and a span in degrees. Chris' program can handle HUGE bitmaps, as well as small.There's also GroundMaker recently out.More than one way to skin a cat... but I usually have frustration with all of these programs until I get on top of the learning curve.As I said, it could use a tutorial or two... and that may take Christian a few days to work out... or perhaps someone else having success will pity us, and show us the ropes.Dick

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>There's also GroundMaker recently out. Dick, do you mean the CoastLineMaker here? GroundMaker is the general design tool (like Airport), they are working on an update to FP commands and maybe will also include VTP/LWM but I think that will take some time.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[link:home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]Arno's FlightSim World for scenery design hints, tips and other tricks...

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Christian, congratulations for what looks to be an amazing program. I was particularly impressed by its ability to handle complex LWM polygons without error. From my own experience, that's a major achievement! One question. It's a complex task to split up the input polygon into sub-polygons that fit into individual LOD13 squares. You have to add extra interpolated points and - far more difficult - extra points in the corners to complete the sub-polygons. So my question is this: how difficult was the solution for you? It took me several months before AutoAsm could do this reliably, as the program has to account for *all* the lines that enter a given LOD13 square before the extra corner points can be correctly assigned. I'd be fascinated to know if you found it to be a difficult problem - or maybe you had a neat idea that worked perfectly from the start! Once again, congratulations for a great program. Best regards, Chris

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>Chris Wright will soon have a new version of AutoASM out. >And that might be better suited for your needs.. as you just >need a centerpoint Lat-Long, and the size of the bitmap, and >a span in degrees. Chris' program can handle HUGE bitmaps, >as well as small. Hi, Dick! You'll recall I mentioned a little secret for the next release. Well, it's relevant to this discussion, so I might as well spill the beans.... One drawback with the method of using screenshots was the need to calibrate it. I described a procedure to calibrate a screenshot, but it was a little tedious and time-consuming. The new version has automatic calibration. You just need to input the zoom value and centre position, and the program does the rest. Of course, any change in latitude has to be accounted for, but I've found that FS incorporates the latitude cosine law very accurately. The program uses the cosine law to calculate the screenshot size in degrees. You can take a screenshot, sketch some polygons and have the bgl files within a few minutes. However, as Ground2K looks to be such a good program, I'm considering whether I'll continue to develop AutoAsm. Since September I've invested *far* more time in it than I originally anticipated! I'll have more to say about this when I release AutoAsm 1.0.... Best regards, Chris

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Hi Arno.Sorry!I did mean CoastlineMaker... forgive me Iain. Too many irons in the fire this week.Dick

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Hi,Sorry, I'm late answeringAbout VB6FR.dll I have decided do not distribuate the VB dlls because of their KO volume , but I use only usual 'controls', avoiding progress bars and so one.You can easily find this .dll; sorry again.the goal of Ground2K : - to hide from users as much as possible the lOD13, LOD8, Cells, Areas notions. You can create polygons, water, lines, being ignorant of this vocabulary. Of course, if you want know and work more with LWM/VTP, you must learn LWM/VTP in details; and I display the corresponding information for people who want to make relation with the generated code.- to be able to be very precise in drawing lines and polygons. That's why I have chosen to start, if possible, with a map; there are different possibilities to locate a bitmap on the earth; I have chosen to start with 2 point references in the bitmap; it is a general solution, independent of LOD13/LOD8.Of course, you can also use a screenshot.About screenshot : FS uses a projection method that makes false the picture compare to the ground reality. Graphically speaking, subroutines use some coefficients to alter the perspective; Effectively, in FS you can change one, and only one coefficient. That's why I advise to use map pictures.For Chris : thanks for your congratulations. Send me directly a short message in order to have your Email address; I shall answer as soon as possible. My address : christian.fumey@wanadoo.frA last word : the developpement of this program has been possible with the help of the Avsim.com community; at the beginning I knew nothing about LWM/VTP. I thank again (a lot) the people who have give me information, specially Dick who takes time to repeat often what we have not immediately understood.Begin with his LWM tutorial; I cannot do better. Just now, We need a VTP guide summarizing all the last avsim messages. that's a lot to do.ThanksChristian

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Hi Christian,I don't know whether you got a lot of feedback via email that encourages you to continue. The response here in the forum was just by the experts getting into details - no offend intended, guys!I just want to thank you for your great program. I've tested it over the last couple of days with most of the features it has to offer and I must simply say, it works! It is the first tool I know of that is able to KEEP a project file for both VTP and LWM and add more items (like lakes and roads etc.) later on by loading it all again.I was working with LWMDraw and the other great bells and whistles offerd here in the forum. This is the first tool trying to combine what the experts here have found out so far.So, Christian, please continue! It would be a shame if your great tool would not be rated/used/tested as it deserves.Hopefully you will find someone who is willing to write the English docs. They are hard to understand if you don't know more about what's going on with VTP/LWM etc.Keep up th good work,Rainer

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Thank you Christian for this program and Rainer for refreshing this thread with your enthusiastic and positive post. I would also suggest to develop further this program, polish the manual making it less criptic in some spots and perhaps make "step-by-step" tutorial of what can be done with this tool. The main intent of this tool was, as I understood, to make proces more user friendly. It nearly succeeded and for one I've read and reread the entire manual and I am in slow process of creating my first Project. Ted

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Wouldn't it be great if this program allowed opne to use LULC, Shgape/DLG data inplace of map files that are usualy rather outdated, develope a map and edit ant changes.Also do you know of any sites where one can obtain the type of US maps used?Richard;

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Thanks to the congratulations.About the documentation, even in French it is difficult to do something clear, structured, think to the English translation, and I use a very poor language !; Excuse-me, what is 'LULC, Shgape/DLG data' ? Christian

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Christan;It should have read LULC Land Class Land Use DataShape/DLG Shape .SHP files are simular to DLG Digital Land Graphs that define City road,highway,railway areas and Water,River,Stream, resivor and Lake areas. Sometimes I miss keys once and a while.Richard;

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Hi Christian,Also for my part a great Thank You for this tool! It handles lots of things very well indeed. I like the way it handles huge areas, the way it can nest polygons and the fact that you can draw several polygons within a LOD13 area with no problem. I really hope that you will continue developing it! I have been testing Ground2K for a while now, comparing it to Coastline Maker and LWMdraw, and my little wishlist for improvements is slowly growing... I hope it's ok to put up some wishes here:- When making several new lines/polys in a big project you always

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Hello Bamce,I like the idea to have a quick selection; the different options could be prepared by the user; in fact I have thought to remember the last settings, but I decided to distribute the first release without this option because of the time needed to write the documentation; When we are finishing a program we are lazzy adding what is detail for us !, but I understand, useful for the users.Lines endings : some of you are trying to discover how it works really; there are some possible values (as 7) in unused fields, therefore I'm waiting today, spending time to find an efficient way to re-mesh flattens. The solution, right now, is to draw 2 close points at each end of the line.Coastline : Coastline maker, I siuppose, is specialized in coasts,i.e the program is adapted.(I never test other programs working on the same subject that mine, thus, avoiding to copy what other people have done; so I do not know the possibilities of Coasline Maker)I can differenciate coastlines and shorelines; for coastlines I can fill automatically the rest of the Lod13, on the land side. We suppose that landclass is pre-existing under the coastline.Thanks for your comments.Your ideas are recorded.Christian

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Hi Christian,I just discovered how to apply a textured VTP2 poly over my local airport to mask the city and autogen encroaching on the airport property using your excellent program. I would like to thank you for your excellent work!!

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