Sign in to follow this  
Guest Scott Campbell

Actual real bug in FS2K2 needs to be fixed

Recommended Posts

Using Pete Dowson's FS Interrogate, I found the auto-coordination problem.Here's the background. Many people have made gauges that allow toggling of auto-coord in FS98 and 2K from a panel. In FS2K2 this gauge no longer works.Using FSInterrogate, I have found that offset $027C is the auto-coord setting for FS98 and FS2000, but it's offset $0278 in FS2002.I don't know what the FS team were thinking, but this one feature is a must-have for taxiing and flying, and they need to reset the Auto-Rudder to offset $027c so all these auto-coord gauges work again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hi Scott When you say that Auto-Rudder is a "must-have for taxiing and flying" are you referring to people who don't have a suitable rudder controller (such as pedals or a twist joystick)? I don't see any use for Auto-Rudder except as an alternative to using the keyboard for rudder control. Just looking for clarification to see if I am misunderstanding something. David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David,I'm actually referring to people like me who do have rudder pedals. Here's what I do: I turn off auto-rudder to taxi, so the yoke doesn't interfere, as it's very sensitive and causes the plane to turn to easily. When I am on the runway I set auto-rudder for flight, so it's like real auto-coordination. When I am on final, I need the rudder control again separate from the yoke again. That way I can line up in the wind and camber as needed, especially when just touching down.So I use the auto-rudder a lot, mainly to circumvent the yoke control when I don't want it for yaw. This simulates the actual auto-coordination on the real jets. Auto-coord in FS effectively disables the rudder pedals in the air which is completely unreal.To have to call up the menu, thus pausing the sim, to toggle auto-rudder is very unrealistic. It's just lot better to use the toggle on the panel, which I can't do unless I can hack the gauges and find the address set toggle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott I didn't know that auto coordination was used in real aircraft, thought it was a Microsoft invention! Now your post makes sense to me. Thanks for the info. David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What auto-coordination on real jets are you talking about? I'm lost as I can't possibly see why anyone with rudder control would want to fake it by having the game center the ball for you. Or do you use it as an alternate form of yaw-damper??michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually for me, I have autorudder in play becauseI dont have pedals. I have a digital hotas thrustmasterset up, which works great, but no pedals. Over 400 kts,which is most fast jet flight sims, you dont need themanyway. However I do miss them in GA flight. Hencea fix to this problem would be awesome.Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm talking about the auto-coordination systems that have been on real jets since the 1950's, and props before that.Pilots don't sit there and center the ball on 747's...or DC-9's or 727's for that matter.(edit) Let me put in a proviso: Unless they disable the auto-coordination system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy Scott!Hey, a few notes.. You said: "I'm talking about the auto-coordination systems that have been on real jets since the 1950's, and props before that."There is no such thing as an "auto coordination system" on jets, there IS a yaw damper. I can only think of 1 prop driven airplane, the Ercoupe I believe, that had a built in "auto coordination" feature.Now, don't go thinking that auto coord is not used, it's just not called that. On the fly by wire planes, it's all point the stick and the plane goes in that direction by whatever means necessary. On the flip side, rudder use under normal circumstances in a swept wing airplane is asking for trouble. They are inherently stable and rudder is just not needed.Onward.."The Pilots don't sit there and center the ball on 747's...or DC-9's or 727's for that matter." Well, they don't really have to because of the swept wing thing. Look down on a 747 or DC9 and note the position of the ailerons in relation to the rudder. Then look at a straight wing plane. Big difference.Points to ponder.BC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BC,Hmmm..okay, I guess that's what I get for learning to fly airliners from guys who would have rather been watching the Broncos than give me real info. Of course this was like 12 years ago as the most recent.Looking through all my aircraft study guides, I can't find one iota of information on the linkages between yoke and rudder pedals. All I can find is info on the cable assemblies, which if thre was one, would include the link between yoke and rudder. I did find all the yaw dampers though. I have no idea what the switch settings mean, but I can make a good guess. The 747 has a switch for the body gear steering, but I don't think that will do me much good.What I need are better mechanical manuals, then I would know for sure, but none of my pals are working at United anymore.I understand the principle of airflow on the rudder with the airliners, but I do remember them telling me I didn't need to worry about rudder pedals in turns because of the auto-coordination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am in full agreement with you, regarding the absence of a working autocoordination gauge. I can't believe they changed it for FS2002! Is there a work-around in the pipeline? I can't afford rudder pedals right now, so A/C is my only way of flying. I find taxiing big aircraft and a pain in the neck using a keyboard!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Microsoft changed many offset's this time! Why do you think Peter Dowson came out with so many different versions since the release of FS2002.Microsoft isn't going to change it back because you want them to. If you want an auto-coordination gauge for FS2002, then you need to build one or ask another gauge designer to build one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

William,>Microsoft isn't going to change it back because you want >them to.But wouldn't the world be a nice place if they did (actually listen to their customers)? ;-)>If you want an auto-coordination gauge for FS2002, >then you need to build one or ask another gauge designer to >build one.I'm not a C programmer, thus I'm not a gauge maker. I wish I were, then I could stop depending on others. I've been looking around at all the old sites like FPDA and HGHB and stuff hasn't been updated in a long time. Since most gauge programmers are either quitting the hobby or going commercial, there's precious few people left making anything for the rest of us. The few people who did provide gauges that I dealt with are commercial now, or far too busy to help out.As you have pointed out, a lot of vars have changed location in FS2002. I just don't see why they did this. The FS98/2K vars are still in there, but not used.As for Peter, I'm currently talking with him about this and a couple other issues.Someone posted the question, "If you built a sim, what would you do?". My answer is to use FS2K2 with some backward compatibility or them actually caring what we die-hard fans say. ;-) Alternately, I would trash ALL the backward compatibility and start from scratch. I think this is what MS really wants to do, and I'm all for it. Then they can really clean the sim up. It's getting very complicated and unwieldy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pete fixed the auto-coordination switch issue, and also has a key mapping ability. So that's fixed. It'll be in the next FSUIPC release.Now on to the next issue...weather. Remember fronts and real T-storms? ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there Scott, me again..Had a look at your site. I noticed that you have filed under dislikes: "Republicans".Well, that is regrettable. I was going to e-mail you a file that would have unlocked all of the secrets of aerodynamics and aviation in general, but as you are obviously a liberal of some sort, I just cannot in good conscience assist you in any manner.Just kidding, had ya going though, didn't I?I'm gonna paste a few of your thoughts to make the answers flow a little smoother.Ya said: "Hmmm..okay, I guess that's what I get for learning to fly airliners from guys who would have rather been watching the Broncos than give me real info. Of course this was like 12 years ago as the most recent."Yeah, well, always consider the source. All of the information that I have not gleaned from personal experience comes from Jets fans. (Does that sentence work?)"Looking through all my aircraft study guides, I can't find one iota of information on the linkages between yoke and rudder pedals."Scott, that's because there isn't one. Stick and Rudder, don't do one widout the udder. YOU have to move the stick and YOU have to move the rudder. The Ercoupe was the obvious exception. The plane ANYONE could fly (supposedly)."All I can find is info on the cable assemblies, which if thre was one, would include the link between yoke and rudder."See above.."I did find all the yaw dampers though. I have no idea what the switch settings mean, but I can make a good guess."The yaw damper does just that, it damps yaw. it sounds super simple, but all it really does is dampen/reduce the tail swaying about and making the passengers green. That is about the simplest explanation."The 747 has a switch for the body gear steering, but I don't think that will do me much good."No, it won't. The 747 has 4 main landing gear assemblies, 2 wing gear and two body gear. The body gear is the inner main gears and turning on body gear steering allows the inner main gears to turn as required while taxiing."What I need are better mechanical manuals, then I would know for sure, but none of my pals are working at United anymore."That's a bummer, but there is a wealth of info out there when you ask. Ya just gotta ask and no, sorry, I do not have any 747 manuals."I understand the principle of airflow on the rudder with the airliners, but I do remember them telling me I didn't need to worry about rudder pedals in turns because of the auto-coordination."They were busy yelling at the Broncs. Auto coordination is not a feature, it's just how swept wing airplanes fly. The rudder is there for crosswinds and engine outs. That's about it.Hey, keep at it kiddo, no such thing as a dumb question, only a dumb answer. And just what IS up with the weather?BC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this