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DF Archer, FSD Commander, or FSD Cheyenne - buy which?

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Or should I wait for the Debonair or Golden Eagle?I can only afford one - but I need a really good, realistic plane to practice in.Thanks for your help.Steve :-wave

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Hi Steve,I only have the commander right now, but I think it is an excellant plane. The VC guages are readable and quite clear IMHO. The screen shots of the Archer and Cheyenne look great as well.Other than that, compare screen shots and only you can decide. I don't feel you will be dissapointed in either, but I may be incorrect.Regards,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Depends what you want..2 engines or 1..thats all it came down for me..the archer is my choice personally..but only because i`m doing a conversion in real world flying.Its accurate!!

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If you need a plane to practice in I would go for the Archer as it probably has far more in common with any real ga aircraft that you will encounter. I don't think I will ever get a ride in a real Cheyenne, but if I want to fly an Archer I only have to book an hour in the schoolplane of my local flying club.Still, as I own both, i can confirm that they are both great planes and fun to fly. The Cheyenne is very fast and powerful and a real beauty, while the Archer feeds my dream of getting a PPL.- Oyvind

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Would also recommend the Commander since it is excellent. May well get the Cheyenne at some point, but I don't get quite as much flying time as I would like anyway - so I will wait for a bit longer....

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How hard is the Cheyenne to learn? I am a MEI and have flown Piper Aztecs and Piper Seminoles, but never a Cheyenne. The Archers looks amazing, but I would like something that has an HSI and a little more advanced - maybe the Cheyenne?I made end up getting the Archer since it would still be a great plane to practice.SteveP.S. Any more comments, anything more to add???

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Steve,You can read my thread regarding the Commander which is now flaming somewhere down the list. It's not a bad plane but relative to the others I don't think it quite matches up - at least in terms of its VC (even with the patch), sound, and CPU performance IMO. Other disagree, some vehemently ;-). As others have pointed out, it's a bit like apples and oranges. THe Cheyenne will get you there fast. It seems to fly well but I can't really compare it to anything I've ever been in, let alone piloted. I consider the DF Archer a work of art. It's the only single-engine GA plane that's held my interest and now it's probably my plane of choice. It bounces around just like every small plane I've been in. The sounds are to die for and my only complaints are a flight model that sticks to the runway a bit on takeoff (I understand they are working on that) and a lack of gauge lighting on the VC at night (although the red dome light works). Many nice touches that I've not seen before - different models that include different loadouts, selectable from within FS2K2 (brilliant!) and a realistically stripped down AP (no autothrottle on this baby!). All three tax a modest system more than most other addons IMO, so if you have a lowend system, beware. It's unfortunate that there are no demos for any of them, but I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of them. The Commander is the cheapest, I believe.David

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Steve,The hardest thing about flying the Cheyenne is trimming. It's always hard to trim a FS model but the Cheyenne is just so powerful that a notch one way or the other can have a big impact. I'm lucky if I can stay within 500 ft of target altitude hand-flying. Occasionally I do hit its sweet spot (right combination of trim and power/RPM) and then it is a joy. Of course there is the autopilot. It's pretty cool to set the autopilot and take a stroll through the cabin! Freaky feeling to sit back in one of the CEO's chairs and look forward at the empty cockpit! Now that I think of it, I assume I can sit in the back of the Archer or Commander but haven't tried it yet.David

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The DF Archer is tremendous, very much like flying the real thing. I'd also recommend the Carenado Bonanza. More power and also fun to fly.Bill

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Wow Bill! That Bonaza looks nice. :-eekBy the way, I love your ERJ-145. I am just wanting something a little less complicated that I can master before moving up to the Regional Jet.Thanks for the recommendation. Any others???Steve :-wave

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I rarely fly anything but the Cheyenne. Very realistic procedures, imho.BTW, if you find the trim too sensitive on your machine, open the aircraft.cfg and change the trim from 1.7 to 1.2michael

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Bill,I forgot about the Carenado Bonanza. I have that one too and like it except it doesn't come with sounds at all. I just use the mooney sounds and it works. Biggest draw back IMO is the international registry painted on the wings. It would have been nice to have the option of an "N" number for those of us in the U.S., but this must be a sore point for all of you in other countries downloading US aircraft. I seem to remember it wasn't cheap either but did come with a good PDF manual. Actually, that's one drawback to FSD IMO. The manual familiarizes you with the cockpit but doesn't tell you much about how to fly it. The Archer manual is excellent! Just like a real owners' manual (I suspect it might be).David

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Hi Steve, as a practice aircraft, nothing beats the Archer panel and flight dynamics IMHO. You can cover every primary instrument with the right mouse button (a great feature to learn to concentrate on the important things). I use it with the Carenado Warrior visual model (easier on the frames with real weather and detailed bush scenery, I still am no big VC fan),RealityXP

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Thanks for the input Uwe, but I should have specified that I would like something with a Constant Speed Prop. The Archer looks great, but I don't want to just use the throttle and mixture lever on my control yoke. ;-)The sound issue and the fact I have no panel screenshots of the Carenado Bonaza makes me leary. Heard good and bad about the FSD Commander - no manual and some strong critics. I just dont know what to do anymore. :-hangAny comments on any other suggestions? The Flight1 Golden Eagle? More comments to help me with my decision?I wish I was rich then I would get all *:-*Steve

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Steve,I should point out that I'm clearly the minority on the Commander. Most people love it dearly. It has a manual and you can download it for free from the web site. It highlights the cockpit but doesn't give much info about flying it IMO.David

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Steve,I don't have extensive experience with other GA aircraft, but I do have others besides the DF Archer and the Carenado Bonanza, but these two are my favorites by a large margin, and since I've flown both in real life, I can submit my opinion that they both fly very close to the real thing and give you that feeling of "being in the cockpit". The Archer panel is superior to anything I've seen, and gives you the exact view over the nose you get in the real deal. The Bonanza's panel is also photorealistically and artistically very nice, with a nice VC, but they didn't include a "landing view" panel like DF did in the Archer, which is VERY helpful. All Carenado would have had to do would be to present the top part of the panel and cut off the lower switches to give more forward view. Beech likes to make tall panels anyway, and this feature is even more important for the Bonanza. But it flies sweet. It lands just like the real thing with nice solid "bumps" when the mains hit.I price for both these airplanes seems very reasonable to me, and both are definitely worth it. The exterior views are so stunning as to be worth it for that alone. The Bonanza sound, even if it uses a default, sounds very close. I doubt that flying these two excellent airplanes however will adequately prepare you for the ERJ. It is soooooo different. But... they'll be a nice start, and in my opinion better than the default airplanes, which are quite good.Bill

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I read somwehere that you want something with HSI and other advanced instrumentation. I understand it perfectly. BTW, do you also like using a Flight Director ? I personally love flying manually with the Flight Director - this is how pros often fly. One piece of warning - the last time I checked FSD's aircraft had poorly excuted FD - it simply is not working right which is surprising considering that it works well in default FS2002 airplanes. In my opinion it is a major flaw.Michael J.

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Hi, Whats the URL for FSD the website?I've been looking for a while but can't find their current site.Thanks,Alejandro Velasco

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Uwe,Tell me about that great scenery you've got behind that Bonanza panel. Is that Ranger Creek? And if so, how do you like it?Bill

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Here is the URL for FSDhttp://www.fsd-international.comI would like to add that the Commander is a very nice plane to fly if you are looking for a complex endorsement, also need a high performance endorsement to fly her.I own all of the FSD products and can heartily recommend them with out reservationsI also own all of the DreamFleet products and also heartily and unabashadly recommend them as well.I would recommend for thoose looking for a complex plane, the Commander, for everyday flying the Dreamfleet Archer can't be beat.One won't go wrong either way.http://members.aol.com/zipkit/sig.jpg

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Hi Bill, you score 50 points out of 100 :-) Yes it is GeoRender1, but the plane is parked at Flying M Ranch. It has been my favourite airstrip in FS2000, thus I didn

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I can say I own Each of these!They all fill their own niche. The Kingair in FS2002was a major disappointment to me. I thought it lookedbad and flew as well. So, have more or less ignored it.Given the total lack of 3rd party support for it in termsof skins etc, Im sure Im not alone.The Cheyenne most excellently fills the need left by thecrappy kingaire in my opinion. At the same time, theCommander and the Bonanza from Carenado do a great job filling the space for single engine retractables. TheArcher fills in the spot for low wing monoplane fixedcarriage...and I rely on Carenado to fill in all my Cessna needs.Im a believer in both freeware and payware. I'll pay ifthe quality is there and it makes me happy.eric

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Can I request a BUMP please? :-grnmdOk, so bottom line...If I want a single engine complex to start with (before moving to the Cheyenne or other multi) - which is better quality, the FSD Commander or the Carenado Bonanza?Eric - you have both. Which is nicer visuals and flies better - need a little more detail between the two.Thanks!!!Steve :-wave

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