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edgarone

Groan......Ground2K questions again

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I am back on my project again and I am trying to improve the coastline around LeTouquet (unless anyone knows of one already done, that will not screw up my France VFR scenery)) Anyway, I have redrawn the coastline as best I can with the sources available and after following the instructions, all seems to work, apart from the fact that there is no shoreline. I have selected Poly with shore, land on right etc, but nothing. I am wondering if it is anything to do with the fact that I have Lennarts textures installed? I have tried others but they do not show up? Should I use Poly with shore or coastline?.My other problem is I cannot get roads to show up, could this be tied up with the above?Finally, any tips on placing suburban areas to get the best effect, I did one and it just looked as if it was a shape of buildings (the poly)not really great.Thanks in anticipation of any helpPaul

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Hello Paul,produced your project any *_9.bgl libraries?Could it be an problem with exclude files, excluding your own bgls? (Use an alphabetical order of filenames to process the exclude lib first)Regards,Edgar

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Hello Paul,Would you please be so kind as to clarify a small point? You say that after drawing your coast, there is no shoreline. What exactly do you mean? that there is no land? that there is no beach?If you mean that there is no land, this is a very common occurrence and is due to a lack of land class assignments. Please use the land class function ("LC" icon) and assign land class values. It is best to extend the assignments some ways into the water. The Lennart textures have absolutely no effect and are not the cause of this problem.The "Coastlines" option in Ground2K4 is very interesting, but I would only recommend it for advanced users who understand what it does. We should all probably use "Coastlines", as it reproduces the way in which the default land masses are drawn.As for the roads, could you please indicate how you are drawing them and even show a screenshot of the parameters window for the roads? This would help. Sometimes, roads do not appear because the declared width is too small. If you are making roads smaller than 20 meters, they may be difficult to see.Best regards.Luis

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Hi Luis,it has gone from bad to worse, I have attached some of the screenshots. I gave excluded the coastlines and used Poly with shoreline option however now, as you can see it has all gone a bit wrong to say the least. I don't know what I am doing but I keep getting land and water in the wrong place. I have read the guide again but that has just got me even more confusedAny help advice would be really appreciated

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Hello Paul,Thanks for the images; they really help.Your problem is rather common, so do not worry too much about it. You will find an illustrated description of it in the Ground2K guide in the Problems section.To resume:A coast is a Land Mask.A Land Mask is a polygon that displays the underlying land class values.A polygon is a closed many-sided figure. It is important to remember this.When you draw a coast, you do not draw a closed polygon, but only the part of it that fronts the sea.Ground2K4 will always close your polygon by drawing a straight segment from one end of your curve to the other.Here is the illustration of what you get when the polygon is closed.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/105849.jpgThe area inside the blue lines is the new polygon and will become a Land Mask. This is obviously not what you want.In order to get land on the other side of your curve, extend the polygon so that the ends almost meet, as illustrated by the green lines. This means extending them over the existing land. Do not join the ends, as you could get an error if the polygon crosses itself in any way.That problem will be solved in this manner.As for the invisible roads problem, I am not sure that I understand. You have posted an image of a Properties window for a line, but it is a black sand beach. So, this gives a few possibilities: 1. You have drawn a coast at Le Touquet with black sand for a beach. I find this hard to believe. Having been to numerous beaches on the Manche, I do not recall any that had black sand (although the beaches are, on the whole, rather dirty, something like Malibu, but with better hotels.) Or; 2. You have drawn your roads as Poly with shore and chosen a black sand beach as the road texture. No, that cannot be it.Really, I do not know what to think, so hopefully you will enlighten me.If the former is true, then in any case you should not select "Join ends of line". What this does is to draw a straight segment from one end of your beach to the other, thereby giving you beach going through land as well as on the water side of the coast! This option should only be used when drawing an island with a beach going all the way around.As for drawing a road, you should declare it as Line/LakeShore on the main Properties window. Then, in the Lines tab, select a road texture. They are far down towards the bottom of the list.Best regards.Luis

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Luis,Thanks for that, I will be having another go later. I may have confused things, I actually started all over again and I have not drawn the road in again. I will try what you have suggested and let you know.Thanks for your timeRegardsPaul

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Hi LuisWell that worked, I finally got my coatline drawn, however no matter what I try I cannot get either the road or the new shoreline to appear. I have changed the type of shoreline and various road widths and I have tried various layers, up to 40 but no joy alt all. It has got me completely baffled. I have had a look at the updated beginners file (I had the old one) however the layer numbers seem low, do they still apply?Any suggestions would be greatThanks againPaul

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Hello Paul,Great, we are having some success. Just a bit more and it will all work out.The Ground2K guide was written over a year and

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Hi Luis,This is proving a real mystery, I noticed that the waves have also stopped as well on this section (if that helps), anyway here are the screenshotsThanks

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The mystery deepens, its anything but a line by the looks of things, I can get Polys to show up, trees, suburbs etc, but no roads, or coastline...hmmmmm

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Hello Paul,The Properties for your lines look correct.When you write that there are no waves, do you have them on the land side of the coast instead of in the water, by any chance?To tell the truth, I do not have any idea why you are not seeing roads or beaches. If you declare them correctly and if you respect the indications as given in the Problems section (make sure to click a few times in each Area when drawing the lines), then there should be no reason not to get them to display.Could you please show a screenshot of Flight Simulator in the places where you expect to see beaches and roads? A top-down view, please, zoomed in to the precise spot.Best regards.Luis

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Very odd I know, whatever I do they will not appear, here are some screen shots as requested. The road should continue and there should be shorelines, which I have changed to see wjether it is one particular type, but no joy.ThanksPaul

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Hi Luis,I thought I would have another go and do version 2 so to speak. All I did was create the background map and redrew the coastline and a road, absolutely nothing. It is as if Ground2K is not recognising the line creation for some reason. Whether this helps or not O don't know, I am using the latest version.CheersPaul

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Hello Paul,why don't you zip that 2nd test project and attach it to your message?From the screenshot it looks like there might be still an exclude file, deleting beaches and the road. (like my slightly change screenshot#3). If you use Rhumbaflappys Cellgrid tool, you could locate it better.Best regards,EdgarBTW: I suppose, the line_9.bgl is created, but not displayed, right?

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It looks like Edgar has figured it out. Paul, do you have an exclude file that eliminates the default elements? How have you named this file?An exclude file will exclude all elements in the excluded layers. Therefore, your new roads and beaches will also be excluded.There are 2 ways to avoid this: - declare your new roads and beaches in layers that are different from the default elements. For example, start from layer 20 and up. I had thought you were doing this since you mention using up to layer 40; - or, give the exclude file a name such that it is executed first, before the new roads and beaches are drawn. This way, the exclude file does not interfere with your new lines. Both these matters are dealt with in the Ground2K guide. For memory, I recommend naming the exclude file: "0_Le_Touquet_exc.bgl". Or, use whatever name you want, the important thing is that the character "0" ensures that the bgl is read first.As Edgar clearly shows, you do, in fact, have both beaches with waves and roads. They are being cut off at the boundary of an Area (LOD13 quadrant).(By the way, you appear to still be using that black sand beach texture that is really for volcanic islands with lava beaches. But, if you prefer the look, you are certainly free to use it.)If, in spite of the above, you still do not get display of lines, then the last recourse is that you are not correctly drawing them.A line is defined by its points. In addition, the Area (LOD13 quadrant) is the defining zone for lines. This means that you MUST click a few times in each Area - you cannot just click somewhere to start the line, extend it a large distance without clicking, then click a second time to end it:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/106248.jpgFor example, here is what looks like a line, but is not! There is 1 point in the first Area and the second and last point is in another Area.The line is not defined in the first Area at all, because a line needs at least 2 points in order to be defined, and there is only 1 point in the Area.The line is not defined in the middle Area because no points are defined there.And the line is not defined in the third Area for the same reason as the first, because one single point does not define a line.To remedy this. click numerous times in each Area when drawing a line (road, beach, bank, stream, etc.)Really, Paul, this covers all the possible sources of error (with the only exception being missing textures in the FS folder, but this is not your problem as you definitely show both roads and beaches in your screenshots.)Many thanks to Edgar, with his eagle eyes!Best regards.Luis

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I have attached a zip of the simple file, this has no exclusions at all yet the coastline or the road still do not show. I am at a loss as to why this doesn't work

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Hello Paul,could you please send your G2k-project file from the second test project? Your attachment contains only the compiled BGL, which contains indeed only the land-water mask, but no lines.Lines would be in a file called ParisPlage_9.bgl, as I mentioned in my last post.Can you confirm, that you create lines in the G2k project, but neither a ParisPlage_9.bgl nor a Ground2K$_Lines.ASM file in the G2k-programm folder is created?Regards,Edgar

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Edgar, thats odd, there are no ParisPlage_9.bgl files only Main files and excludes, is that the problem?

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Hello Paul,thats sounds indeed like the cause of the problem: lines are in a ***_9.bgl file (for a G2k project). Is a Ground2K$_Lines.ASM file created in the G2k program folder? (Ground2K$_Lines.ASM is the sourcefile, which gets compiled into a ***_9.bgl file)BTW, what is a Main file?Cheers,Edgar

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Hi Edgar,Yes the Ground2K$_Lines.ASM is there but no ***_9.bgl file, eceytning else is there, see screenshot

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Whow, nice screenshot, Paul :)Could you check, if the file date of this file gets updated, when you compile the g2k project. I.e. is it rebuilded?That's a strange problem. G2k4 compiles just some files...As for a test, you could drop the file onto the bglc icon, and see if a "Ground2k4$_lines.bgl" is created? Or even better, open a commandline, go into the g2k folder and type the command: "bglc Ground2k4$_lines.asm" - now you could see, if the bglc compiler prints any errors.BTW: Do you use the most recent TDFMacros (I think December 2003)?Regards,Edgar

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Edgar,Tried dropping the file into the BGLC, absolutely nothing ceated anywhere. Not really sure what you mean about typing a command? Also what is the most recent TDFMacros?Sorry to sound thickBTW This used to work ok, I have now got the most recent Ground2K version 5.4 is there another version?

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Many thanks to Edgar, who has pointed out my mistake in the above post.A few years ago, it was necessary to define all points in a line in Ground2K. But, it seems that this is no longer necessary and lines display correctly with only the beginning and end points defined.So, I was wrong. Please disregard the above explanation concerning definition of lines.And, again, many thanks to Edgar who is much more alert than me!Best regards.Luis

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Hi Paul,please check the file dates of the files "tdfmacros.inc" and "TDFHeaders.inc". They should have a file date of 17.12.2003. These files are prepared by Richard "rhumbaflappy" Ludowise and define the macros (commands) used to program the sceneries.You'll find the most recent version (if yours are older) in the avsim library: search for tdfmacros and rhumbaflappy. And then replace your older versions of these files.G2k4: As far as I know, there is no new version."Typing a command" - aka "typing a command at the command line prompt". Its the older, but quite powerful, Ascii interface to the computer. If you never heard of it, search at Google a little bit. Cheers,EdgarPS: Could you attach a zipped version of your Ground2K$_Lines.ASM file?

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Hi Edgar,I just did a quick swap of the newer version for the older version, guess what, everything worked. Lines/shorelines etc. Bear with me I am going to go back to the newer version now and I will quickly knock up the file again, we're getting thereCheersPaulPS, where u from as I aware it might be late/early

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