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arno

Runway bleeding through Mesh Terrain mountains

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Hi all,I have a runway bleeding through the mountains that I've created as mesh terrain. I've already tried to fix this by adding a LayerCall although as said to be not necessary anymore in FS2002. I reduced to Area 5 and got it fixed to not to be visible from far away anymore. But the issue itself isn't fixed at all this way. Especially the lights of the runway bleed through at night and that is very disturbing.Is there yet any way I could go?I recall we had this with Terrabuilder during FS2000 days but that was a totally different matter (no mesh terrain). Thanks in advance.Rainer

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Have you tried flattening the area around the runway? As the runway has the same height everywhere, you need to make sure the mesh under it is completely flat.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Hi Arno,Thanks for the reply. It's not a matter of flattening though. It's not the terrain bleeding through the runway on the ground. It's the runway bleeding through mountains when getting nearer to the area. Especially disturbing at night the lights connected to the runway scenery element like VASI and approach system bleed through the mesh mountains.You have another idea?Rainer>Have you tried flattening the area around the runway? As the >runway has the same height everywhere, you need to make sure >the mesh under it is completely flat.

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Hi Arno again,I've made the mountains as mesh terrain. It's all working fine except this fact.A pictures says more than a thousand words - see attached. The mesh isn't loaded in full detail on the picture to make it more obvious but it's also there when fully loaded. The mesh is a combination of LOD11 and LOD08 else working perfectly.Thanks for your efford.Rainer>How did you make the mountains or are they default terrain?

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Hi Rainer.The default runways of FS2002 use LWM flattens underneath the runways. This will take care of the mesh problems. The default flattens are always 1/128 of a meter lower than the runway's surface.I don't know if this is because the runways add the extra elevation, or if the LWM flatten is simply 1/128th lower. For simplicity, just make the flatten the same altitude as the runway. The flatten is usually the same size as the abp*.bgl apron, which is a Layer4 VTP polygon.The runway command does flatten the terrain, but is is a little crude I noticed. The LWM landmask will do the trick.include TDFMacros.incinclude TDFHeaders.inc; Flat LandMaskBGLHeader 34, 28, 32, 22, LWMHeader, TerrainHeaderStart ; TerrainHeaderStart produces a zero offset... ; ...used to switch off LWM or VTP headerLWMHeader label word ; LWM_Header ID label LWMFileHeader 513, LWMIndexStart, LWMStart, LWMEndLWMStart label word data_start_0 label word LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1, 3, 1, 19, 13 LWMPoly2 4, 0, 1, 200, 0 ; type is land...height is 200 meters and 0/128 fractions LWMPoint 0, 0 LWMPoint 255, 0 LWMPoint 255, 255 LWMPoint 0, 255 data_end_0 label word Cell_440_166 EQU LWMCellID 0, 0, 3, 440, 166 LWMIndexStart label word LWMIndexHeader 1, LWMIndexData LWMIndexData label word LWMIndexEntry Cell_440_166, LWMStart, data_start_0, data_end_0LWMEnd label wordDick

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Hi Dick,Obviously I'm not explaining correctly. First Arno didn't get my drift and now you maybe either:-) I don't have a problem below of the runway. It sits on the ground perfectly but you can see the runway nearly all around through the mesh mountains.It is a virtual island scenery completely created by me with LWM masks and all the bells and whistles.The runway on the picture is *behind* the mountains and is looking through. I'm attaching the picture again below to make this clear.The SCASM code is as simple as this:Area(B 19.886499 -80.966103 30) Smoothing( 1 ) Runway( 19.886499404907 -80.966102600098 Length 5250 Width 164 Alt 0.000000 Heading 78.40 ID 8 Surface 1 Lights 6 Markers BF THROFFN 450 THRLIGHTSN 5 THRLIGHTSF 1 APRLN 8 APRLF 3 StrobesF 5 StrobesN 1 VasiBarsF 9 VasiSlopeF 5.0 VasiSpaceF 197 VasiDistF 1427 VasiSideF 98 ) Smoothing( 0 ) EndASee the picture and help me out of here:-)Thanks for your patience with me.Best regards,Rainer

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The problem may be that you are using the wrong runway code? I may be wrong though since you are using SCASM. There is an old and a new runway command. Make sure you are using the right one.Also, do you need the smoothing command? The default FS2002 runways don't use it.Maybe try a 3rd party program to do your runway and see what happens...Nice problem :)Cheers, Christian

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Hi Christian,Taken from the latest SCASM docs:__________________Example: ; Header( 1 47 49 9 11 ) LatRange( 49 47 ) Area( 5 48:28 10:12 100 ) Smoothing( 1 ) Runway( 48:28 10:12 altitude 22.5 heading 45.555 length 3000 width 150 surface 1 ID 11L ) Smoothing ( 0 ) EndA___________________So this is the latest runway command and Manfred Moldenhauer also suggests the smoothing.> Nice problemYes indeed! :-))Anyway, thanks for the input.Rainer

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I never use the smoothing, I don't think Fs2002 needs it. Remember that the SCASM docs cover anything from Fs5 till Fs2002 :).If I remember correct there is a seperate doc file with SCASM that is about the new runway command (Runway2 or something like that the command is called). Maybe that helps.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Hi Arno,OK, I'll try without smoothing.I've found the following in the Scenery SDK:[ul]In some cases, you need to delay execution of a BGL fragment (for instance, until the ground is drawn). You can use the radsort system to do this, however, using the radsort system takes a lot of time to sort, and there are often items that need to be delayed but don't need to be radsorted. In this situation you can use the categories system.There are 64 categories in the category system of which the following are defined and used:CAT_MESH = 4CAT_POLY = 8CAT_RIVER = 12CAT_ROAD = 16CAT_LINE = 20CAT_RUNWAY = 24CAT_MOUNTAIN = 28CAT_CRATER = 32CAT_GROUND_ELEMENT = 40CAT_SHADOWS = 60Categories are processed from lowest number to highest (0-63).[/ul]Do you think it could be related to my problem? I mean, if Mesh is CAT 4 and runway CAT 24 (runway drawn *after* the Mesh, this could be the case (?)....Rainer

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Hi Rainer.Yes, I misunderstood your problem.It almost seems as if the terrain is transparent.I believe your island is one you have created from a custom mesh, right? In other words it did not exist in the default scenery, until you created it out of the ocean floor?Assuming that is true...The default mesh of FS2002 exists on several LOD levels. Christian's new TMF document explains that very well. If your mesh is nonexistent at several lower LOD levels, that might explain this 'transparency' of the island.Just a thought.Dick

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Non, no, no, Rainer. You got it all wrong. Mesh is not cat 4 anymore, nor does the radsort system still exist. This is all really old stuff and FS2002 works completely different. Use the runway2 command as Arno said, the old runway command is probably not working correctly, because it's not meant to be used with the new mesh. Also, I think that the smoothing command shouldn't be used anymore either. Just download airport for windows, do your runway there, see if it works and have a look at the scasm code...Cheers, Christian

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Hi Christian, also Arno and Dick.Thanks for your suggestions.>Use the runway2 command as Arno said, the old runway command >is probably not working correctly, because it's not meant to I don't know about a 'Runway2' command. The old command was 'RunwayData' and the new command (according to the docs and also online at the SCASM homepage) is 'Runway'.I've tried 'Runway2' and that is not accepted by SCASM - I use version 2.88 of SCASM which should be the latest around.I skipped the smoothing. That didn't help.I also went down the other lane as Dick had suggested. I added LOD09 and LOD10 mesh. I was only using LOD08 for long range visibility and LOD11 for details.This seems to be an interesting idea that LOD09 and 10 could still 'carry' the transparency of the water.The only way to 'fix' it is adding a layer call (which shouldn't be done anymore in FS2002 according to the docs) and reduce the visibility. Funny thing is that the runway does *not* bleed through when being very near (= LOD11 fully loaded).Hey guys, I don't want to bother you too much! But this is not only to fix my specific problem. It might be of general interest as well.Thanks again,Rainer

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