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Scenery Layers - Please help

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I have recenty loaded many of the US Mesh areas kindly provided by Rob Gainer. I have no other US Mesh loaded. Around Anchorage and Denver I have lots of spikes and straight ridges. Yesterday I tookoff from KSEA for KLAX. After one third of the journey I start to see lakes on spikes at 20,000' and airfields sitting on spikes at about the same altitude. The mesh is loaded into individual folders inside addon scenery. Thefolders are then indivdually activated through scenery library and then layered directly above default terrain.Does the position of the addon scenery folder matter in the scenery library?I cant believe that this is to do with the quality of the scenery but rather something I'm doing wrongAny help would be greatly appreciatedAdrian

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Hello Adrian,I'm afraid the problem is due to the quality of the mesh.There are many reports of problems with Mr. Gainer's mesh. Below is an image of his "patch" for problems reported in the Alaska data. This is a screenshot of the rgal.bgl mesh file, seen with TMFviewer. (part of the MS SDK) The blue area represents terrain at sea level (elevation of 0 meters. He has clearly flattened much of Canada with his "patch".ak1.gifThis is what the area looks like along the boundary between the flat terrain to the east and the real elevation data (green) to the west. (confirming my interpretation of the first image) The small lake to the east of the aircraft now appears on the top of a plateau! The terrain in the distance appears normal due to the limited radius within which LOD9 mesh is rendered. What you see there is the default mesh. As you approach that area, it too will be reduced to an elevation of 0 meters.ak2.jpgWhen evaluating mesh, it is important to make a distinction between the benefits of add-on mesh in general, which are obvious, and the quality of the construction of the mesh, which can sometimes be quite poor. Failure to do so only encourages otherwise promising mesh developers to continue producing poor mesh in large volumes. StevePS: If you would like to learn more about how mesh priority is determined in FS2004, check my website:www.fs-traveler.com/priority.shtml

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SteveThanks for the swift reply. I take your point, FS Genesis here I come!!Thanks againRegardsAdrian

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Hi all:"I take your point, FS Genesis here I come!!"Poor Steve, there's no justice in this world; Steve does the work and Justin gets the money. Adrian probably didn't realize it but Steve also offers a high-quality US mesh (plus other areas) for sale. :-)Big thanks to Steve for his ongoing contributions to mesh "theory" and design!HolgerProud member of the

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Hi guys,Yes, bit of a faux pas, there, I'd say.Steve puts out quality stuff and knows his mesh business. He is a valuable resource in the "brotherhood" and competitor or not, he's usually, if not always, on the high ground.I almost feel guilty now . . .-------Justinhttp://www.fsgenesis.netHigh Quality Scenery for FS200x

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Justin and Holger: I find your comments about Rob Gainers mesh to be unacceptableThe mesh works well for me, and as a matter of fact I

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Hi.>I find your comments about Rob Gainers mesh to be>unacceptableNothing more than a difference of opinion, surely, and nothing to get upset about...>The mesh works well for me,I tried Rob's Alaska mesh and found that it erased most of the US; I downloaded the patch and found that it erased most of Canada (see the screenshot in a previous post); I tried one for the east coast of the US and although better, it was still not so good. The problem wasn't so much with the mesh, it was with where the mesh *wasn't*.Can I suggest that you load part of the mesh into a viewer - either mine, or the official MS TMFViewer, and take a look? Large areas of flat blue represent zero altitude. Anywhere that's blue where there should be land will probably cause problems in FS. It's easy to check - simply load the sim and choose a starting location in the area you want to look at.It doesn't matter how good the mesh is if it causes problems in other areas.>send them to him, I see no posts of any vile emails.Kind of by definition - emails would be direct to Holger and therefore not visible here. In fact, I *have* seen one or two because there were relevant to me and I found them pretty offensive as well.>I saw a user ask a question, which was a valid question only>to get a rude, and unflattering shot at Rob .Again, I don't think that was a "shot at Rob", it was an opinion about one of Rob's creations. It's a very different thing, and for Rob to take criticism of one of his mesh packages and respond in private with personal insults is a little OTT.I get lots of bug reports regarding stuff I've written, and I usually *welcome* them because it helps me to improve the software. However, I don't *rely* on them, and I do perform testing before I upload stuff. (Despite popular opinion :) )>I too have Gainers Alaska, and it was really bad at first, but>after putting in the update my Alaska is fine. As for NYC MESH>, who cares...the guy is freeware if you don

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SteveWhat can I say!! I apologise for being so insensitive. I have your site details, only hope that my Russian IP address will be accepted for the purchase!RegardsAdrian

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HI Lisa, or whatever your real name is,Not too much to be added to Jim's comments, but . . .True, there have been some errors found occasionally in my products over the years. As you state, no one is perfect. When they are reported they are promptly fixed.So, you find it unacceptible to encourage and exhort freeware developers to adequately test their creations before publicly distributing them? As for "feeling the pinch," uh, no. Not feeling any pinch at all. Had my best day in six weeks yesterday as a matter of fact. Rob's freeware is in no way in competition with my products, and there definitely has been no downward trend in sales since Rob's files began appearing.You mention errors in Holger's BC, but offer no specific example. If there are problems with Holger's files, I am sure he would promptly fix them when they are pointed out.You are also not specific about "your friends" who supposedly never received a reply from me. Some communications may fall through the cracks once in awhile, but if you ask any of my customers, 99.9% of the time, they recieve a response immediately."Lisa," if you're going to post here, please have the courage to use your real name, as the others who have commented here have done. Popping in, creating an account, posting vague and inflammatory comments, then disabling your account is not the way to be taken seriously. Hit and run tactics are truly cowardly.The bottom line here is that Rob has posted his work, flaws were pointed out in a civil manner, he has responded in an uncivil manner with personal attacks against those who sought to help him.We hope he continues his quest to become a mesh developer, but we also hope that he progresses into some sort of craftmanship along the way, which includes adequately-testing his products before distribution. And we also hope that he develops the ability to accept constructive criticism without retaliating with personal attacks.-------Justinhttp://www.fsgenesis.netHigh Quality Scenery for FS200x

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Hi all::-xxrotflmao Too funny!I usually do a quick check of the forum posts I participate in before starting work and it's a post like "Lisa's" and you guy's straight-faced responses that will make me smile the rest of the day. Haven't laughed so hard in long time. Well, given the "classic" one-liners and poor spelling I'd say it's either Lisa trying hard to write like Rob or Rob trying unsuccessfully to write like a Lisa. In either case, I suspect a strong genetic link.In case any of our bemused readers get worried that mesh making and critique is something that happens in dark basements, attached is a shot of yours truly checking mesh accuracy in the backwoods of British Columbia. Please envision a bewildered look on my face because, according to Rob's Alaska mesh "update", this should all be at sea level - I'm bracing myself for a long fall ;-)Have a fabulous day everyone.Cheers, Holgerhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/65569.jpg

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Hi: Ill try and recall all the topics in 3 posts you guys tried to cover.( in no order )As for a genetic connection, I have never met Mr. Gainer what so ever.I have emailed him on several occasions but thats the end of it.My account was del long ago, if you look above if you don

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Me again,Just for clarity:"I hope were clear here, the only messed up mesh I have from Rob Gainer is Alaska , NYC and Washington Seattle.I downloaded the Alaska update, it looks great!As for the other two files, Robs Eastern Mesh and Western Mesh takes care of the redundant NYC and Washington - Seattle , so that problem solved. Now seeing as those files are almost a month old, were planing on dwelling on his 3 files forever?"We are, in fact, talking about the following files:nycmesh.zipseaor.zipakmesh.zipakmeshup.zipakmesh2a.zipakmesh2b.zipakmesh2c.zipAll these files have the problems we've been talking about and, according to Rob Gainer, "are no longer supported", "will vanish off FS web sites", and "are to be deleted".Anyone who can interpret the output of TMFViewer will be able to independently verify the issues with these files. Again, we're talking about vast areas outside the SRTM coverage area set to either sea level or -32767m.Whether these files will remain on the FS webservers or not is between Rob and the web masters. The point here is that people familiar with the problems these files generate will likely continue to answer questions by users regarding these files until the day those errors have been addressed or those files have been removed. Cheers, HolgerP.S.: I have noticed on Rob's website that he is offering to ship his mesh files to people unwilling or unable to download them (for a fee of US$10 per CD-ROM); the list of files available for this service includes all five Alaska series files. Let's hope these are corrected versions and that he will upload those to the FS webservers as well.

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Hi.Holger, good to see the MESH POLICE being so diligent in their patrols. As you can see from the attached photo, the risks are real indeed. This used to be a popular skiing area with a small lake at the bottom of the mountain.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/65784.jpgCheers,Jim Keir

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As I started this thread, perhaps I could finish it? Yesterday I decided to email Rob Gainer re my problems (Something I should have done at the outset). He replied within minutes and provided me with a solution. The mesh is fine nowI'm sure Rob wont mind, here is his response to me-------------keep me informed Id like to know if that worked or not...and if not , we shall get you all fixed up..no matter : -)Rob Gainer--------------These are the facts of how I was treated. Thats allRegardsAdrian

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Hi, Adrian.Excellent news - perhaps you could say what the fix was? I'm sure it would help others with similar problems.Regards,Jim Keir

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JimThe fix was to remove the previously discussed files. nycmesh.zipseaor.zipakmesh.zipakmeshup.zipakmesh2a.zipakmesh2b.zipakmesh2c.zipHaving done this, I have now added some of Robs other files and found no problems.RegardsAdrian

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HI Rob,You are making yourself look more foolish by the minute.You must fear the real truth since you have blocked my IP from your forum.But, to address your latest update to your hilarious "Truth about payware" I don't NOT use my cell for business communications and the number published in the InterNIC record is NOT a cell phone registered to Verizon wireless. Verizon is my local telephone company, And my long distance is through my local Cable company, Adelphia.Now, Rob, if you want to find anything out about me, why don't you just ask instead of pretending to be Inspector Clouseau?Is there anything you would like to know about me, Rob? Just ask.UH OH, I hear those black helicopters outside. I have to run . . .-------Justinhttp://www.fsgenesis.netHigh Quality Scenery for FS200x

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HI Rob,I see there's an update on your web site as to why you banned me from your forums.You know, Rob, have you ever gone into someone's house who had one of those little barking chihuahua's. Those tiny, tiny ilttle dogs's that bark so viciously while backing themselves into a corner?Your silly rantings are so devoid of any truth or facts that this whole thing has become almost too absurd to deserve a response. I can only sit here shaking my head and wonder why you would go off on this little witch-hunt, like a blind man shooting arrows into the dark trying to hit something.Just for the record, I have never lived in Coudersport, PA. I have never set foot in Coudersport in my life. Coudersport was formerly the headquarters of my cable company, Adelphia, who provides my pipeline to the Internet and my long-distance service. They are now based in Denver, Colorado.Also, for the record, I paid a little over $9000 in state and federal taxes last year and will pay nearly $11000 in taxes this on April 15th.Now, Rob, please stop before you embarrass yourself even more than you already have. Or do you have any more interesting "facts" that you would like to present?And to think you have targeted me because I encouraged you to test your work before distributing it. I even encouraged you to continue your work.Also, as a claimed "attorney at law" you must know the term "libel." I'm not sure why you have chosen to launch these silly attacks. And I do find them quite entertaining on one level. But if you're going to entertain us with your wild, inaccurate and incoherent speculations, at least try to find some facts first.By the way, are you on some sort of medication?Since you have banned me from your forums, I formally invite you to mine. I promise you I will not block your IP. Your presence there is welcomed.:-)-------Justinhttp://www.fsgenesis.netHigh Quality Scenery for FS200x

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Here's the mesh-relevant text from Gainer's website:EDITED OUT.... You can't just copy and paste, wholesale, content from someone's else web site. Please don't do that again. Just provide a link and let other folks go there themselves. TAThe only reason I bring this up, is that misinformation and slander are originating from Gainer. His SRTM 1-arc second meshsets for the US are basically bandwidth wasters. They will be full of innacuracies, spikes, pits, filled voids and coastline problems. These are inherent in the data. ftp://edcsgs9.cr.usgs.gov/pub/data/srtm/D...ReadMeFirst.txtThere is a much cleaner source of data available at the National Map for the US:http://seamless.usgs.gov/A small amount of study of mesh techniques would allow interested people to derive their own US mesh of the best quality. Or you can buy the best quality US mesh from Justin Tyme or Steve Greenwood. And if there are problems with their mesh sets, they will fix them... because they actually know how to fix them... because they actually know what they are doing instead of mindlessly churning out poor quality mesh from SRTM2BGL.Dick

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Thanks for understanding Dick. I would have the same problem if someone copied and pasted AVSIM content somewhere else, so to allow it to be done here isn't too kosher. Again, thanks.

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