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How can I add more gates to airports?

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Hey Gang!I know that this has been tossed around a couple of times in the forums, but I have not yet seen a definitive answer on this. Now that we have the amazing TTools going, we need to populate airports with more than just a couple of planes. How can I do to include the right amount of gates at every airport to support heavy traffic?Thanks for any inout!Sincerely,Dennis D. Mullert

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Not yet!. We are waiting for the ingenuity of Mr. Lee Swordy and his upcoming program to do that next month.Desert Jockey

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The program Lee is working on will allow the user to add unlimited gates (parking spaces) not actual jetways. As well as runways so we should be able to have all runways active :) thus reducing the backup on the taxiways.John

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I don't know about the rest of you, but I kind of like the lineups at the runways. It makes it seem just a little more realistic.

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Actually, there still won't be more than one runway active. As of yet, no one has discovered the code that will 'force' ATC to utilize more than one runway. Also note (and I'm not trying to toot my own horn), I announced the discovery of adding more gates successfully to the form prior to it moving over. Lee in turn told me 'not to waste my time' in developing a software package that will allow end users to add gates and the "ptl's" as his package was due out next month. My brother and I are going forth with the package anyway only because I asked lee to show us a screen shot with all the 'additional gates' he claims to be able to create and he ignored the request.Not taking anything away from Lee, but I'd like to see some proof before I just toss aside my own discovery.-john

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Currently we have only one active r/w at any airport as we all know. But if we add a new airport KORZ with the exact same features and exact same location as KORD, but limit the departures from the international terminal to runways that are the next longest of 32L, (by eliminating 32L in our new airport) we should be able to have what appears as two active runways. If I recall, someone shared that the AI always selects the LONGEST r/w based on wind. Only changing the direction ... 9R for 181 wind and 27L for 179 wind. We would also want to eliminate standard KORD from using any international gates. By the way, this is how I was able to get two active r/w in FStraffic.Thanks,BobIn the land of Lincoln:-cool

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Hey John, When do you and your brother plan to release your package? Also could you give us a screen shot of your user interface? Thanks and keep up the good work.

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As soon as we can? I'm retired and can work 'endless' hours on it, should I desire... my brother, however, is a VP of a rather large accounting firm and works with me when he gets the opportunity. Much of the graphics engine will be his programming as I specialize in the math/file end and not the GUI end.A copy of what we have so far, merely reading the bgl file, can be seen with this pic ... http://www.buckeyediscus.com/fs2002/fmmi.jpgproof that we did actually accomplish this feat can be seen with our expample port columbus (ohio) product seen at: http://www.buckeyediscus.com/fs2002/kcmh3.jpgthis is merely an addition of 3 gates at port columbus and screen captures of it to 'prove' that we can do it :-)adding the gates was NOT the difficult part. the difficult part was determining how to keep FS2002 completely functional after adding the gates. If attention to detail is NOT paid, the program will 'gpf' in various places, however, determining when/where it will 'gpf' can only be determined with very vigorus testing.-johnp.s. forgive my spelling, it's not my day :-)

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Since you weren't paying attention the first time I posted Pics of reworked parking at KLAX, I will do it again, this time with KLAS. The airlines aren't exactly realistic for Vegas, but I put this togther in 15 minutes for the pics so they will do for this purpose. The program will be in beta testing in a couple of weeks.

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Lee, I meant no offense. I just don't take to kindly to anyone telling me 'not to waste my time' ... I've wondered often, since the time you made that comment to me, if this is what Bill Gates told the makers of Netscape...How bout a default airport with that traffic?

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It looks as if you have specific gates assigned for specific airlines. Am I making the correct presumption???:-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpy :-jumpy :-hah :-hah :-hah :-hah :-hah :-hah :-hah :-hah :-hah

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Virtually_JohnWith respect Lee did show a screen shot at LAX with aircraft at the gates. If it was a screen shot of the program he was developing you should have been more specific.As far as reputation goes Lee has the runs on the board and there is no reason to doubt his claims (please do not jump down my throat about the reputation comment)However, go I urge you to go ahead with your development as two is better than none and frequently some people take to one program better than they take to another.Also, competition is very good - that is how discoveries are made and this may lead to multiple runways being made active ;) Addition: I see Lee has posted another couple of screenshots so my comments are a tad irrelevant now.

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Hey Lee, do you want a beta tester to test your program in hot weather situations :-lol ? Seriously, ready willing and able to give it the once, twice or thrice over for you.

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Looks good, Lee.May I bug you for a quick question ... how much do your frame rates drop when you've got 32 aircraft being displayed?One of my concerns about the ability to add AI flights, gates, etc. is how easy it will be to overload the system with so much AI aircraft that flying will be useless.Keep up the good work,John TaylorKONT

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ya know, I do appologize for being such a pessimist... however, I've worked many long and hard hours to do what I've done and know from what I've discovered that what Lee is purposing is not only ludicrous but also impossible.first, when adding information to the default airports in scenerydb/afdfiles/scenery/*.bgl (the only way to add gates to default aircraft), MSFS2k2 can NOT be running. Lee has stated that he can do this in runtime while addressing fsuipc. I have personally changed gate coords during fs2k2 runtime and have always crashed my system in one way or another (most often, if I should ever click on 'go to airport'). it's just not possible.second, after the bgl file is edited 3 files are then reindexed by fs2k2 during startup. why? to prevent the general protection fault messages which appear otherwise.third, anyone can place static aircraft at any airport at any position. however, most times these are done in custom airports and NOT default airports, which is what this thread and many other threads addressing this topic was about. I often do not even attempt to download 3rd party airports as performance normally slows do to macros utilized at those airports.Once again, I am not taking anything away from Lee. I just find it very difficult to believe he can do this during runtime with default bgl files and miss all the GPF errors which one encounters during the game should they try. Waste my time? Never. if nothing more, at least the world knows that Lee is very close to a presumably working copy that will allow one to add gates to default airports.Hey lee, why don't you post the bgl file for KLAS you had to edit, so we can all share in your design abilities while we await your final product? (the changes to KLAX would be good too). The entire bgl file, if you don't mind.-john

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As I said John - keep on with the development.I and others await the hard work of both Lee and yourself. I always work on the theory that time on these sorts of things is never wasted because there are thousands of people like myself without the know how to do what you are both doing who are only too willing to pat backs and thank those that do.

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I don't know how you are doing it, but I don't get these GPF problems you are talking about. On my program (which I have renamed AFCAD), when you want to work on an airport you chose the airport either by entering the ID (e.g. KLAS) or using a tree view of all the FS2002 airports, derived from the index file. The program finds the appropriate .bgl file, reads the airport data, then closes the file. This causes no problems even while FS2002 is running. All work is done on the airport data in memory, and when you want to test your changes you just click 'save' and the program re-opens the .bgl file, inserts the changed airport data, and closes the file again (having made a backup copy first). I have done this dozens of times while FS2002 is running without any problems. In order to test your changes you just have to go back to the 'create a flight' dialog then go back to 'fly' to reload the file. I just did that a minute ago to remove one of the parking spots in the KLAS file that I noticed was too close to another one.The initial indexing FS2002 does when you start is only needed if you add a new airport.Even if you couldn't change a file while FS2002 was running for some reason it wouldn't be much of a problem, you could rework an entire airport with FS2002 running and flying and all you would have to do is save the file and restart FS2002 to bring in all the changes.As to the KLAS scenery being a 'custom airport' with static scenery. It is the KLAS that came with the game, except for the added parking, and the aircraft were all just TTools flight plans.I am not going to post the modified bgl file because it is a copyright violation and it could get this forum in trouble. If you want a copy I will email it to you (virtually_john only, I don't want to be emailing to everyone on the planet). When AFCAD is finished it will export airports in de-compiled text files, which should get around MS copyrights, and you just import it using AFCAD again.

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You can't actually assign airlines to specific gates. I may look that way because the gates I created were all sequential, and FS2002 inserts AI aircraft at gates in the order they appear in the drop down list on the FS2002 Start Locations page. The first 'n' flight plans I created were for a NWA paint and the remainder were BA, so FS2002 loaded the first 'n' sequential gates with the NW planes. If you left the AI to come and go for a while they would randomise.You may notice that the gates are in a mixed-up order in the FS2002 drop down list (e.g. not GATE A1, A2, A3 etc.) and this is almost certainly to prevent the AI from bunching up in one area. AFCAD allows you to put the gates in any order, or mix them up, but I didn't bother when I did that quicky job on KLAS.You can, however, assign specific aircraft types to specific gates within reason. Forget the "Gate small/meduim/heavy" stuff, internally the .bgl files specify parking as radius'es (in metres) and AFCAD allows you to finely adjust those radiuses for any parking type. The AI will park at the smallest available parking space that is big enough for the aircraft (based on the wingspan of the aircraft), so by specifying a size just big enough for a 737 or MD83, only those types will park there (unless those sized parking spots are all gone in which case it will use a larger one).It may be possible to make specific airlines use specific gates by modifying the aircraft wingspans slightly so that each airline's 737 (md83, A320 etc) has a slightly different wing span, maybe 6" increments, not enough to change performance. This would mean that you would have to have different files for different livery aircraft, not just different paints, so it is probably not worth the hassle.

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When I used Mike Stone's A320, which is in the pictures, the frame rates were terrible. When I changed them to the stock 737's the frame rates were actually reasonable. I got at worst about 11 FPS (PIII 900 with GeForce II), with the stock aircraft, and that is only when you are viewing all the aircraft at the terminal in the same frame close up (e.g. flying right over the terminal in a C182 -- keeping in mind that the KLAS scenery is very frame rate consuming in itself). The rest of the time the frame rates were in the +20's.I think we need to convince aircraft builders to make more 'frame rate friendly' aircraft specifically for AI if we want to bulk up the bigger airports. At the very least, AFCAD will allow you to put aircraft exactly where you want them and not just spread out around the tarmac.

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Thanks for the update. As Lee has done, we all need to take three deep breaths and go back to work and get these fantastic tools finished. Wouldn't it be nice if Lee and V-John could help each other? I think we would then have the best-of-the best.Good luck folks!Regards,BobIn the land of Lincoln :-wave

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Lee, you don't get a GPF if you try to create a MSFS2k2 flight plan if you do these changes prior to the reindexing done by FS2k2?Sure would like to know how you got around that one! That's the one gpf that took me weeks to figure out how to get rid of. And yes, please do email the bgl file to me... john@stottlemire.net-j

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Thank you for the bgl file...Now let me say this, in closing....When you sit at klas and click on flight planner, you get a GPF. I opened the file you sent and checked the hashcode within the file. You have not changed it, thus, flight planner GPF's every time if you are sitting at that airport (or any airport contained in that bgl file).It took me weeks to find the formula for the hashcode and the location in the bgl file it was placed. You, obviously have not yet found it, making the program you are writing utterly useless.Now, should I still not waste my time?-johnp.s. hate to sound so harsh, but I still don't like the fact that anyone tells me "Don't waste your time" especially when the person who told me that doesn't have the whole picture (irratates me even more now that I know lee doesn't know where the hashcode is or the formula needed to correct the GPF)

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Instead of playing the 'I know something you don't know' game why don't you tell him where to find the 'hash code'? Perhaps Lee would then recognise your achievements in the thank yous when he releases.Just a thought - I wonder if something resident on your machine is causing the GPF's. Lee doesn't sound like the type to announce what he is up to with such conviction when what you imply is a fundamental error is in the workings of his program.I thought one of the great tenets of the Fs community was to hel one another. Must have been a dream.Anyhow - if you have all the answers how long will it be before you development is released?

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Okay Chumley,Nice move.You got me guessing now. What is the missing letter? Is it an "L" or a "P"? In this case it almost sounds like a ? should be used along with adding a "with"?Yous said ....>I thought one of the great tenets of the Fs community was to >hel :-hmmm one another. Must have been a dream. Thanks,BobIn The Land of Lincoln

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