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PAI needs to rethink its repaints policy

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I would be obliged if someone explained to me what is the official policy regarding repaints of PAI models.I notice that there is request for such repaints not to be uploaded to other sites, but only to the PAI website. Fine, I can understand why.Then, the repaint will be examined by PAI "officials", and will be either approved and used as an official PAI repaint scheme, or will be rejected and... then what?What happens to a rejected repaint?What if PAI rejects a scheme which others happen to like?Won't the designer of that scheme be allowed to upload his work to any site of his choice then, so that other users, who may not have the same taste as the PAI "officials", be allowed to use them?Also, what about repaints of airlines that are not at all supported by PAI? Can't the designers share their work with the rest of us?I believe someone at PAI must rethink their repaints policy very carefully.Stamatis

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Maybe you should address this issue with ProjectAI. I can understand your concerns of submitting work and not being able to enjoy it. On the other hand, you could submit it to the open sites, such as AVSIM and Flight Sim, and let downloaders decide what to do with your repaints.

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Hi,"Maybe you should address this issue with ProjectAI."I have of course posted the very same message in their Forum as well."On the other hand, you could submit it to the open sites, such as AVSIM and Flight Sim, and let downloaders decide what to do with your repaints."But that is exactly what they ask you not to do, and what I am questioning.Btw, I am no repainter, have none of the skills myself. But I already see screenshots of many liveries I would love to use, and as their policy stands, I may never be able to use if they are not approved by PAI. It is this policy that I believe needs a rethink.I can fully understand their decision to consider as "official" PAI repaints whatever they themselves deem appropriate. It couldn't be otherwise. But to ask repainters not to upload their work for others to use, even if not officially sanctioned by PAI? I find this serves nobody's interests. AM I wrong?Stamatis

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For the record, I have received the following reply in the PAI forum:Stamatis,You

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What You are free to do is try to contact the painter directly... ToMey

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Guys,It's not so much that they are not going to accept reasonable repaints, it's just that at this time, I think they are so inundated with work, that they simply don't have time to address every situation at once.I think they will gladly listen to any reasonable request and/or question, and I do also believe they will do whatever it takes to make as many people happy as they can.If you'd like to become part of the PAI team, and be able to help make these kinds of decisions, please, send them an email and see if they can use your help.As far as posting repaints using the PAI templates, well, it's a well know fact that you need to ask the original author for permission to do a repaint of his aircraft. I'm not sure that PAI is in a position right now to start allowing their aircraft models to be painted and distributed en masse.These guys have spent a vast amount of time to supply us for FREE, an add-on to our hobby that is expanding at what seems to be the speed of light. They've found a niche in our hobby, and they've exploited it so that we may have the things we want, and not have to pay M$ any more than we already have.So, drop on by PAI and ask if there is anything you can help them with.H_Kev55

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Hi "H_Kev55"You wrote:"As far as posting repaints using the PAI templates, well, it's a well know fact that you need to ask the original author for permission to do a repaint of his aircraft. I'm not sure that PAI is in a position right now to start allowing their aircraft models to be painted and distributed en masse."The above is not the case here. A PAI repaint involves only the textures, which are the repainter's work entirely. A posting of such a repaint does not involve/include the posting of the aircraft model itself (mdl file), which is indeed PAI's property.Stamatis

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Except that very few repainters repaint EVERYTHING, normally using the original's bare metal, wing, and nacelle textures. They also normally reuse the "details" in the textures, like logos, doors, panel lines, scoops, etc.Thus, they need to get permission from whomever did the original textures to be able to reuse those bits.Hope this helps,-- Tom GibsonCalifornia Classic Propliners: http://www.calclassic.com/Cal Classic Alco Page: http://www.calclassic.com/alco/Freeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.com/ San Diego Model RR Museum: http://www.sdmodelrailroadm.com/Drop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

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Tom,In PAI's case, the "original", as you call it, comes with no textures at all. Just the mdl file. There is no associated Texture folder when you do their BASIC installation. You only get bare models.Repaints, whether "offcial" PAI ones or not, provide all the Texture folder contents.Stamatis

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>In PAI's case, the "original", as you call it, comes with no >textures at all. Just the mdl file. There is no associated >Texture folder when you do their BASIC installation. You >only get bare models. >>Repaints, whether "offcial" PAI ones or not, provide all the >Texture folder contents. >>Stamatis But the texture files that the repainters use are indeed from Project AI.

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Thank You for making my point John.The deal is, if you download anything from PAI, or any other provider of such files, what you download is essentially their property.Whether it is textures alone or the whole package, you need to get permission to change it from it's original version.Unless of course, you use GMAX or FSDS and create your own. But then, if you did, I'm sure you wouldn't want others to change what you had created.Let's be fair to all freeware designers and authors. If you download something that they created, please ask permission to change it. Kev

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Guys, I am sorry but I diagree with you in this particular case. In my humble opinion, if someone uploads something he has created he violates nothing. All those who repainted the default aircraft did not need anyone's permission. All libraries are full of these repaints, no? I don't see how it is any different with PAI. And mind you, the default aircraft were already painted, not "blanks".But this is not the point. The point is that out of sheer courtesy all repainters should agree on a policy with PAI. This is what I believe, and I think this is what you are saying too. We do not disagree on this.Stamatis

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I fully agree with you Stamatis. PAI is asking repainters *please* not to upload their repaints anywhere else but their (non-existent as of today) upload section of their website. But I do not think they can *demand* it, and therefore will not be able to enforce it. Courtesy only holds for a certain time, not more.I wonder also how many "repaint auditors" they need to be able to evaluate and approve any single repaint they receive in a reasonable time (before FS2004 comes out for example?)...Is this really feasible??Still they say nothing about "rejected" repaints, and they will have to explain what they consider an "offensive" repaint, which is the only criteria published for "not approving a repaint of a virtual airline".I hope they reconsider this decision, because competition is coming, in a much more *free* attitude....Frame-rate-friendly AI models, free for anyone to repaint, no restrictions on uploading anywhere, up to the user to decide if worthwhile to download and install, and yes, no flight plans, no easy installer (but most people don't need it packaged this way...) and therefore no special bandwidth needs...I hope PAI does not make a tragic mistake. Soon, they will not be alone in this niche.They should approve their official releases, not all repaints.Please do not misunderstand me. I am grateful 100% to the people that is making PAI work, and I've been one of the first to donate to project. I just do not want to see that another freeware project eats them out. I'm just being realistic.

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Stamantis,Your right, I think we do all agree that there should be a standard to which we should apply ourselves.And I think that people like you with great ideas like you've expressed, should maybe think about joining the PAI team and help them to do exactly these things that we speak of.These guys are so inundated with work, I see this as the a reason that thing are not progressing as fast as some would like. But they need to make sure that things are done in a certain fashion so as not to ruin what they've created.As for competition, well, I say good luck and thanks to anyone that takes the time to supply us with all this great freeware.But, it's hard for me to see how someone can and will allow things to be so free and easy with the files they've created. It can and will, in my opinion, only lead to files that probably won't keep their true and intended quality.Let's take PAI for example. I read about them in all the forums that I visit. I see more complaints than accolades. Yes, I understand that is just human nature. But you see complaints from people who want more and better things, but yet lack either the talent or the fortitude to either join in and help, or spend most of their free time designing something for this hobby.Alot of us soon forget that most of these designers, do so for the love of the hobby and not to make a dollar in doing it. I have no respect for the person that whines and cries about it not being as good as advertised or available when advertised because these selfish types seem to forget...IT'S FREE..Kev

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Kev,Just to clarify something: I never complained about anything related with PAI. I have faithfully submitted to their forum all the errors that I have found in the downloads sofar, which errors are fully expected in a huge undertsaking such as this.But I honestly believe that for the project's own benefit the matter of their policy regarding repaints needs some serious attention, that's all.Stamatis

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