Sign in to follow this  
dkohl

Disappointed in Ti4600

Recommended Posts

My favorite topic again - FPS! I bought and installed a new NVidia GF4 Ti4600 this week. I was expecting a huge jump in rates in the NYC area. I have Scott's NY sceneries (LGA, JFK, NYC, LI, NY2). So this is an area that has a lot of buildings (TM's). I've attached a screenshot on approach to LGA.{Graphics}mipLevelCount=7vertexIndexFormat=0premultiplyColorAndAlpha=0allowAutoMipMapping=0directTextureFlag=0{Textures}maxTextures32=16maxTextures32_565=32maxTextures64=16maxTextures64_565=120maxTextures128=100maxTextures128_565=415maxTextures256=64maxTextures256_565=500maxTextures512=8maxTextures512_565=0maxTextures1024=1mipMapFlag=896{NonAGP}maxTextures256_565=32{AGP}maxTextures256_565=32I am about to throw away my entire investment. There is clearly a problem with my system, but I can't seem to fix it.Scott Cannizaro: Any ideas? Can you send me a breakdown of texture usage? Clinton: You've been helpful before, but even you RENDER.ini file doesn't help.AAARRRGGGHHHH. :-grr-DK----Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I also have a GFTi4600 with the same drivers you have. The only difference I have is that I use an AMD at 2Ghz.I stopped looking at one point in time at my framerates and decided to develop a new scale of measurment called "overall user experience". What I am trying to say here is that I got completly consumed at one point in time with tweaking and fixing stuff with almost the same results and worse, no flying time. I even bought (theotherproductwhichwearenotallowedtomentionanymoreonthisforum) and got the same kind of battle going trying to squeeze little frame points here and there. At one point in time I stopped doing it and started to pay notice to the overall smoothness of my sim experience. I was surprised that aside of a little stutter here and there it was a pleasant experience and that the overall improvements were in picture quality and faster screen movements and the rest is just part of the game I guess. This is what I use as my render.ini:[Graphics]mipLevelCount=6vertexIndexFormat=0premultiplyColorAndAlpha=0allowAutoMipMapping=0directTextureFlag=0[Textures]maxTextures32=16maxTextures32_565=64maxTextures64=192maxTextures64_565=16maxTextures128=300maxTextures128_565=800maxTextures256=64maxTextures256_565=64maxTextures512=12maxTextures512_565=20maxTextures1024=2mipMapFlag=896[NonAGP]maxTextures256_565=32[AGP]maxTextures256_565=32I have FSAA turned on.Don't ask me how I got there. At one point in time I plugged it here from the forum and it seemd that this gave me the best performance. I will also try your setting and see if it feels better (I refuse to look anymore at these nervous stuttering frame numbers)So how about developing an overall "How Much I Enjoyed Flying" scale rate as a starting point?Take care,Mannie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken, flip a coin (-:DK,I just tried your render.ini and my overall system "Fun Experience" was dramitically reduced. I got severall errors loading scenery at different places.You should try my render.ini and see how it goes.Good luck,Mannie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is against Avsim's policy to mention any other competing flight simulators on these forums. Comperative "studies" are specifically forbidden. This rule applies to regular troops and moderators too. Use of pseudo names instead of full product names may be allowed if the name is sufficiently cryptic. If you want to compare - compare with real aircraft or a full motion system simualtor.*:-*Michael J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, deppending on the kindda product you use :-abductI will not step into this one :-smile12Still waiting for my 757 to land x(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DK,Texture slot allocations are the first place to look. However, your texture slot allocations look fine to me. You have plenty of slots allocated for each category, with plenty of room left.I did notice the 76,000+ polygon count. This may be a little excessive, even for your system. I have a Celeron 1.1 mhz with a GeForce 64mb Pro. I make sure that all the airport areas that I create have < 20,000 polygons. If the polygon count goes over 20,000 for me, I usually see quite a bit of slowdown. I would be interested to see what others say about the polygon count, but my system would crawl well beneath 4 fps with that many polys.Don't give up on your card yet. You have the best there is right now.Allen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would do a couple of things.I first found for myself not to use FSAA in FLY2.I really do not think it was designed with that in mind.Also even though the quickgen is nice the buildings all use fairly high polys.Even though Daves models are lower than the fly default one, it still will be come a problem once you get into extremely terramodeled airports,terrascene and quickgen modeling etc...I personally do not use any quickgen for fly because it just kills the performance.FLY was not built to use it imho.The new vid card is not going to ever give you higher fps.Your fps will only be as good as the CPU,ram can handle and how fast you motherboard is from a default point.The video card will help you crank up the detail at high resolutions and still be able to maintain the current FPS level your system could normally handle.I would try getting a geforce tweaker like GTU from guru3d.com.You might want to try some different drivers.I did not like the 28.83 drivers.I really like the beta 29.20 drivers.One last thing of course.Turn off all virus scanners and background programs.http://www.xp-erience.org/ has some pretty good tips on XP :) I get a 30+ FPS in other areas but nyc gets me down to 10-15 .So it's not all your set up.Try the default render.ini too if all else fails :) Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something that has a bigger result than I at first realised is the AGP memory allocation. Surprisingly, this has a major effect even when all your texture slot allocations fit within the memory on the card.After fitting my 4400 I was having major pauses switching views within the cockpit. We're talking seconds per frame here (spf :-) ). I had the AGP aperture set to 64MB. Using the NVidia AGPmem utility mentioned in another thread revealed that I only had 67MB available to AGP. As I had 100MB of textures allocated no wonder I was having difficulty. Setting the AGP aperture to 128MB fixed this problem.The other biggie is system memory. All those high detail textures have to be cached somewhere if they're not going to read off the disk every time you switch views. I consider 512MB to be a good target to aim for. (But don't exceed this if you're still running Win98 as that will open a whole new can of worms).Andrew Luck18 miles SW EGSH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry about the double post. I was waiting for the 757 to arrive so didn't have my mind fully on the job. After posting the first it didn't appear in the topic list so I wrote it again. That didn't appear at first, but now both have. Ooops.Andrew Luck18 miles SW EGSH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allen,I do not find a high polygon count by itself to be a major problem (i.e. dropping to 4 fps), although my fps will drop. I also find that exceeding a texture slot allocation does not always result in 4 fps, again my fps dramatically drop and I try to avoid both situations. I will sometimes have a major fps drop even when I know the texture slots are covered and I do not have a high polygon count. I think sometimes it is just the sheer number of models in view that the system has to deal with. I also almost always use fsaa and find that the combination of fsaa and clouds really hits the fps on my system. I have a slower system (p3 at 933,512 ram,gf2 64mb) and generally run my visibilties at 1/2 of maximum (30 mile vis,3 hi res,10 med res) for smoothness and make adjustments as needed when I have problems with addon scenery. high polygon count/low fps but not a 4 fps situation http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cde8d873c88e1dd.jpg6 unique hits on the 512 slots with only 4 allocated/low fps but not a 4 fps situationhttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cde8dc73d307b8b.jpgKurt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the RENDER.ini settings above. I will take home with me and try later in the week. I'll report back.-DK----Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suggest that you play with FLy2 with no add scenery for a while. Get a feel for the program and the fps. With no add on scenery you should be getting high 2 digits fps. Experiment with all the planes, or a 172, a Pilatus , and a 777. If you get 4fps, then there's something wrong with your system. If not, I'd start experimenting with the scenery density sliders and dynamic scenery. You must know what your system can do without the add on scenery first.tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed that in high TM areas like NYC (with Scott's add-ons) that I get a tremendous amount of disk access. Recall - I have 512MB RAM, I have unloaded as much as possible from memory and turned off virus scanning. I think that my biggest framerate problem may be due moreso to the disk access than my video card. I have TweakXP and think I've optimzed correctly, but not sure.Any suggestions or techniques to "pre-load" more TM's rather than have to pull them off the disk all the time. Or alternatively, anyone with experience in RAM disks - perhaps I could load "BiberAll" and "Scott's" models on to a RAM disk?? Just a thought.Any comments on this?-DK----Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you know, Tony: The FPS problems are almost exclusively in heavy-TM scenery areas. So I am certain the problem is my PC's ability to handle the memory needs of heavy TM areas. NYC area, Philly (I have a custom KPHL airport that's very high in polygons) and Ft. Lauderdale (KFLL also by the same author as the KPHL airport) are the worst. Almost all other areas are smooth as silk.See post above RE: RAM disk. Comments, help appreciated.-DK----Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DK, I've noticed noone has mentioned the old problem of certain models that would "re-create themselves" - namely the TRI models - like the Firetruck as one culprit - and some of their buildings. The only work around I recall for this was to either delete the TRI firetrucks -or- you have to open the scenery file and look for instances of models that are repetitive with the same coords and delete all but the first instance. Just a thought... :-) Although am sure you don't want to really do this, have you tried the 29.20 drivers at all? The 28.xx one wouldn't work well for me at all (I have a GF2 GTS 64mb DDR card). The 29.20 drivers at least work for me, but I still hit areas where I'm losing either the sky or FPS drops to 4 and stays there. Now running WinXP Pro, upgraded from Win ME.Hope this helps a little! Ken WoodCNN International Weather

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mannie:I tried your Render.ini and had no luck. In fact, my "Fun Factor", if you want to call it that, decreased. I am having no trouble with my 128 textures, its fully in the 256. Actually, as I tried several things last night, I think the problem is in loading the TM's into memory. I see a lot of disk movement when I make turns in heavy-TM areas (like NYC with Scott's add-ons). My sense is that I'm allocated reasonably, its just that I can't seem to get enough into RAM.That's surprising since I am running a PC with 512MB of system RAM.I'm trying to figure out how to get more into RAM, or how to get my models to load more quickly and stay there. I'm hopeful that this path may solve my ever-frustrating problem of low rates. BTW: I couldn't care less about the actual rates. I fully agree with you that I should be (and am) striving for a better overall Fun Factor. Doing so will require a reduction of "Frustration Factor".-DK----Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where does one find the 29.90 drivers? And how stable do you find them. In general, I am willing to use beta software if its known to be stable. Also, I can always roll-back. I'll keep the 28.83 drivers on my HD for future use.-DK---Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear it did not work for you. Strange though, I have most of my scenery at 7.5 DEM and use also quite a lot of TM in my scenery. We have almost the exact same setup. The only difference is that I have an MSI mobo with RAID which speeds disk access and AMD as processor. I have also quite a lot of disk access but if I compare this to my previous system without RAID I think the differences are small. Last night however I tried to land at EGLL (also uses the NYC addon) with PMDG 757 and had to abort the landing because my system was crawling! Time permits, I will see where I can get some improvments and share them with you.Good luck,Mannie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be worth looking at CacheMan, a freebee Windows memory tweaker. This will enable you to easily change the way Windows allocates memory. Andrew Luck18 miles SW EGSH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing, regarding your post RE:...I've noticed no one has mentioned the old problem of certain models that would "re-create themselves" - namely the TRI models - like the Firetruck as one culprit - and some of their buildings. The only work around I recall for this was to either delete the TRI firetrucks -or- you have to open the scenery file and look for instances of models that are repetitive with the same coords and delete all but the first instance. Just a thought... I cannot answer this question since I'm using someone else's TM scenery (Scott / NYCFlyer). However, I am pretty sure this is not the problem. If I recall correctly, Scott was aware of this "duplicating models" issue and had accounted for it. But I'll send a note to Scott and ask him to respond here.-DK----Fly! II v230Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 512MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v28.83, WinXP Home Edition.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had fixed all the TRI truck problems in my NY scenery pods, so that's not the issue. To reiterate, if you're using my NYC, and LGA pods, be sure to remove Dave's pod and scenery file and replace the cities.pod with my cities_no_nyc.pod. Also the current Newark scenery contains duplicate scenery models. I have a new version of Newark that will be available shortly.Dave, some things that have helped me with FPS are:1. NO FSAA2. set popbuildingsintoview=1 , poptolerance=20 (in fly.ini, the names might be slightly different)3. Max Vis=30; Med res=11; hi res=44. NO building shadows, NO water animation.5. AGP aperature 128MBThese setting keep me at about 20 fps in NY, with the worst case being around 14 fps.I could attach my render.ini later if you like.-----------------------Scott CannizzaroPPSEL-KTEBAMD xp2000+ - GF4 Ti4400G4/400 - Radeon32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this