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B-33 Bonanza 'Black Bird"

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Hi All, I'm new to this forum. And new to Geoff's truly significant new freeware of the "Debonair". I just d/l it yesterday, and from what little I have seen so far, it surpasses a couple of the 'Payware' planes I have in my hangar.But I do have a problem in loading the aircraft. When I select from the Select Aircraft menu (regular), I get only a black silhouette, and when the B-33 comes up on the screen it is still just completely black. (Looks like a small SR-71!!!)The cockpit, views and all else work fine. The wing views are fine.But from Spot view, I only have a totally black aircraft...........I did an un-install and re-install. Same result. I have RTFM, but do not see where I missed anything in the Installation. Anyone have an idea or can help?? I keep thinking it is probably something so simple I have overlooked it. Regards,Nick

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Thanks for the compliments. I have also gotten about 3 emails from other people with this problem. The only thing I can think (and I am certainly no expert) is that either your video card or computer is running out of memory to display the textures or a driver issue.You might want to try a clean reboot and close any running programs in the background.One other obscure thing to try is save a default ms aircraft (like the 172) as your startup situation and see if that helps.Other than that I don't have any other ideas-hopefully someone else does.Thanks,Geofhttp://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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Geof - Thanks for the speedy come-back to my post.I am running 256RAM, so no problem there. I have done re-boots, I use EnditAll before running FS, and I have started with an established aircraft........so it is indeed an enigma. I have over 100 planes in the hangar. This is the only instance of this sort I have experienced.But, it is no problem as long as you stay in cockpit view, it is only the Spot view where my Deb turns into the SR-71.......Well, thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep fiddling with it. And if I find an answer I'll post so the other 3 guys can have a fully textured Deb also.Regards,Nick

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Hi Nick,256ram is fine but what exact video card and drivers are you using in your setup?Also, I need to know exactly what all of your display settings and sliders are set to including aircraft.I believe that may be where the culprit lies. Also, in spot view, go do something else and come back in 5 minutes and see if the textures loaded, then report back here and we should be able to nail it down for you.Also, a screen shot of the problem would help as well showing your dektop. Maybe go to window view to do this.Regards,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Geof....... I tried both AI and Regular. And to Sonar5, OK, I'll try the items you suggested. A couple of times as I switched from Cockpit to Spot the textures would "flicker" like they were trying to "show". So I do think it is in the Textures file somewhere. Maybe a corrupted file when I downloaded. But, that is why I did a unin&reinstall....... Hmmmmmmm. Well let me go fiddle.Cheers,Nick

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Nick, You can try but you still did not list what Vid card, drivers and slider and display settings you are using. I believe there is a higher probability that it is a system problem and not related to the textures included with the release.You listed ram, but we will need complete system specs to diagnose where the cause is. OS, processor speed, vid card, etc...Regards,Joehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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OK Joe, here's the specs of my "ultr-lite" PC, but it has no problems in 'driving' some of the high-end, FPS eating program planes, such as DF734, DFpa28, all 3 FSD's, and others. So this is why I was surprised why the Deb has a problem. In Cockpit view on the Deb I am getting 15fps and 14.5 on Spot (even though it is Black!) I will admit the DF734 does drag my fps way down, but it is still smooth and flyable, anyway. So here I am: 450MHZ,PIII, 256RAM,Voodoo III AGP, 3DFX 4.12.01.0666 (English)While I was away, I 'fiddled' with the B33 file. I took out the Model.AI and the Model. Reg. files. No change. There are 9 Texture bmps. in the Texture file. Oddly enough, I slewed (in Spot) up to500', then did a Tower view of the Deb. If you run the view way, way out the plane will turn 'white', but as you bring the view back in it will turn 'black' again. Thats all I can pass on it you for now.Regards,Nick

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Hi James, I appreciate the input. And it is possible for sure. But when the old, very used Voodoo III can still 'drive' 100+ 3rd party a/c of varying demands of need on it, and I get good performance out of all of them........well, it kind of does not shake out.But then only being a basic non-geek, what would I know?? (-;I guess that is what I enjoy so much from this hobby, trying to figure out why my PC is being non-compliant with my wishes.......!?Cheers,Nick

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Joe - Oops, I forgot to add that my Display sliders are all running at about 50%. And I am at a 1024 x 768 setting. These are the same settings I have been running FS2002 at since last Fall.Incidentally, I notice that laying "loose" in the FS2002 file, right next to the 'B33' aircraft file is an archive, 'hghb_dh_val.gcf' .Is that a part of the 'B33' file? And should it be IN the aircraft file? And yes, I loaded the Deb, went away 5 minutes, came back, burped, and looked at the screen. Nope, it did not load the textures.Maybe I should only fly the Deb at night with no moon, that way I wouldn't notice it's SR-71 'texture' (-;Cheers,Nick

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hghb_dh_cal.gcf is a flightsim file (I think). Should not go in the Debonair's folder. Maybe someone whos running a Voodoo card and the Deb could come and say what they see. I'm clueless at this stage :-doh http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/edenw/fs_banner_je4.jpg Think highly of yourself, for the world takes you at your estimate -Anon

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I saw this with some planes appear black shiney when using voodoo 3500 It is the video driver for voodoo not being compatible with direct x 8#Anniette xxxx

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Hi again,In Geof's Debonair manual he reiterates that the Debonair is designed to be run im MSFS2002 Pro at 1280 x 1024, and may run well in lower resolutions. It was tested on a 1.4 ghz rig, and I have a 1.2ghz system. He also stated in the quirks section that it runs well on his 1.4ghz system and he cannot predict frame rate issues and performance on a particular system.I am afraid that your system may fall under these guidelines. I believe that Geof was most likely correct in his original post regarding memory, and I believe the holdup is a combination of Vid card and processor.Have you put the aircraft complexity slider at Very Small. And reduce all other texture sliders to their minimum settings, as Microsoft also talks about performance compromises within their own manuals. With every slider at minimum, does it still not load?I am afraid I disagree with you comparing this to over 100 other add-ons that do work. This is a unique aircraft that does not compare to anything else released IMHO. In conclusion, you may be relegated to flying like a real pilot. That is, from the inside, (which is my preference), and I do not necessarily think that is such a bad thing.I hope this helps and good luck, Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Thanks for the info on that James. I don't know where it came from all of a sudden. So, just associated it with the add-on of the B33 aircraft file, as they both had about the same inception date and time in Properties.Yeah, I'm with you, I too am clueless on my Texture problem on the Deb. But other than that it is a great sim, and I am really enjoying flying it and getting used to it. It handles pretty much like the PA-28 Archer. The instrumentation by Geoff and team is just superb, and the copilot view is a great bit of added candy. I just wish I could see what it looks like on the outside!!Cheers,Nick

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I think its a video card memory problem. I have a 64mb Gf2 Mx400. I havent checked but the textures for the debonair seem large. They always take longer to load about 2-5 seconds than any other aircraft. The quality is a plus though, it makes up for the time it takes to load. I used to have a Voodoo 3 2000 and if I remember correctly those have only 16 mb of ram.Andrew

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Regarding the file hghb_dh_cal.gcf, I found it in the aircraft folder of the cumputer that I installed the Debonair on, but it doesn't exist on another system where I havn't yet installed the Deb. The file can be read with Notepad and contains only DH_001. Don't know if this sheds any light on your problem. While she's a great looking plane from the outside, her performance and what you see from inside the cockpit is what really counts. David

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Joe, thanks muchly for your advice and observations. Also to all others that lent their thoughts to my Deb "Black Bird".I think your summation is most probably right on the nail's head. I realize very much how marginal my system is. And I am beginning to sense that Geoff's creation is really a bird of a very different feather than my other "100+" add-ons.And yes, I do recall reading that the Deb was designed for 1280x1024. I had not thought to give that a try. So I'll crank it up to that level and see if the old PC can carry that load.I think I may have to relegate myself on my flights in the B33 to the cockpit only. And righto, that is certainly where RW pilots fly. Inside!! It just bugs me a bit that I can't see the plane from Spot. But with all that Geoff has put on my plate with the great panel, I am sure it will keep me quite busy and satisfied.Thanks again Joe. And, as a "newbie" to this forum, I am very impressed with the folks on it. And how good it is to share with fellow simmers that have only simming in mind, not drivel.Cheers to all,Nick

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When I downloaded the Debonair the file name was b33.I renamed it as Bonanza b33 and the textures were not loaded since it was searching for the b33 folder.I changed the name back to b33 and the textures where loaded.However I still get problems with HSI that does not load and prior to that I get a famous warning message that a third party file, etc, etc.I uninstalled and re installed the Debonair file, but keep getting the same problemEdmundo Cardenas van Grieken/SVMICaracas, Venezuela[table border=1 bgcolor=#eeeeee][tr][td rowspan=3] http://avsim.com/flightdeck/images/Radar_small.gif[/td][td]Proud pilot of Proud Supporter of[c][link:www.flightsimmers.net/radarcontact]Radar Contact][/c], the premiere ATC adventure add-on for FS

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I am going to try to redo this gauge that causes the problems for you guys in .xml. It may take me a few days or it may be a week or so be patient but if I am able to do this it should take care of that problem. In the meantime maybe another user can find the problem. It is a strange one.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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I'm running a Voodoo3 card and was getting the same "black-bird". I think the video card is the culprit here. By changing the textures from DXT3 to 32bit with Imagetool semi-solves the problem of getting some color. I'm thinking that the Voodoo card has problems with the alpha channel. I had a similar problem with an Extra 330 that had DXT3 textures. Just my 2 cents worth.Paul B.KSMS/KSSC

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Nick, about ten minutes after reading your post I popped over to http://www.freeflightdesign.com/ and by pure chance I saw a post that may be the answer to your problem. If these conditions are true, then you will get this problem. 1. The card does not support 1024*1024 textures (your Voodoo is probably in this category). 2. The plane uses 1024*1024 textures but does not have mip maps. According to the post I read, if the card cannot handle that resolution then it will use the next mip map resolution, i.e. 512*512. However, if there are no mip maps then there will be no textures and the plane will indeed be black. You could use Imagetool to check for mip maps - and you could add them yourself if there aren't any (if Geoff doesn't object!) Another option would be to reduce the texture resolution to 512*512. In FS aircraft options you can reduce the texture size - but that may also depend on the existence of mip maps. Best regards, Chris Wright

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James-didn't I tell you not to forget the mip maps!:-lolIn all seriousness this has been a learning experience. Just finding out how end users equipement can effect the performance and workings of something this simple (relatively)-I can't imagine designing something more complicated-like a flight sim!http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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