So few people prefer Fly! to FS?

[Guest]

I just answered the survey and viewed the results, and it beat me that so few users prefer Fly! (II) to FS (2002). The numbers doesn't say it all, though. Maybe the border isn't that strict, or maybe you do different kind of flying on both sims?The Fly! community seems very happy and quite active here so I didn't expect FS to be so crouded already. Could you just vaguely describe your opinion (avoiding a flame war :)) about the subject and what kind of flying you use the different sims for. Personally I have to excuse and tell you that I currently do not fly much, as I've been spending lots of time on Linux and other things. However, what I've seen of the different sims makes me favour Fly! II so far.Although I'm simply curious, this information would probably be appreciated by developers as well.Regards,Dave

[michal 44]

Dave,Your question is bound to lead to comparing both sims and this is one topic which is not appreciated on this forum - I personally wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Volumes have been written on this topic and you will find plenty to read in the archives. If you favour FLY!II - that's all that should matter to you.Michael J.

[RandallR 446]

Dave,I wouldn't worry too much about the results right now. Even with Avsim's wonderful support of the Fly! community, FS has been the dominant sim for a long time (and I believe it had 10 years on Fly! before Fly! even got off the ground). Until you brought this up I wasn't aware Avsim was running a new survey, so a lot of Fly!ers probably haven't added their 2 cents worth yet.If you go back and check the results, you might note that Fly! is actually in 2nd place (even against MS' other offerings). I know the disparity is extreme, but that's not bad at all considering everything else that's out there.

[Guest Dean]

Forget a comparision between the two. As Michael indicated, volumes have been written and any constant seizing of an opportunity to voice one's dislike of either sim usually results in flaming. They are just different, so for me it is a question of variety. When it comes to just flying, I tend to use one sim exclusively for a while then when I want something a little different, I use the other. I also enjoy using Terrascene and Terramodels, so Fly offers me something else when I'm not in the mood to fly.Dean Karis

[Guest]

Maybe I was unclear, but I was well aware of the problem with such comparisons, and that's why I said you could describe it on a more abstract basis. Maybe that doesn't work too well either in here though.Never mind. Just keep on Fly!ing. :)Dave

[Guest Dean]

>Maybe I was unclear, but I was well aware of the problem >with such comparisons, and that's why I said you could >describe it on a more abstract basis. Maybe that doesn't >work too well either in here though. Actually, you are correct. You never asked for a comparision between the two. I picked up on that from Michael's post so my response was more intended to follow the overall tone of the thread. Since Michael doesn't use Fly and I don't believe Randall uses FS2K2 nobody really responded to the specific nature of your question. I tried to give you some feel, abstract or otherwise, as to how or why I use both sims. I will keep Flying. FS2k2ing too! :-)Dean Karis

[michal 44]

.. one way to do it and get some honest opinions would be to ask on this forum why people dislike FS and then on the FS forum to ask why they dislike FLY but such threads most likely would not be allowed to live very long. I have a feeling it is next to impossible to do anything of this sort and not to violate some forum rules. And I also have a feeling that those that use both FS and FLY is a really small group.Michael J.

[Guest Dean]

I say damn the rules, let's do it! :-lol Unfortunately, I don't think it could be done without the thread degenerating into comments like "only a nitwit or his idiot mother could like that sim!"Dean Karis

[Guest]

I love both simms. I have used all of the MS simms and still have them. As well as Flight Unlimited and Pro pilot. What do I use the simms for?With MSFS 2002 I use it for the microlite flights as there are a lot of choices and for the odd GA flight. Its my kind of "joy riding" flights if you know what I mean.With FlyII, a little of the above and the more "get your teeth into" flights. And the creation side is just wonderful, as then you feel like one big family making our aviation world more enjoyable. I have been coming to the forum now for less than a year and have learnt so much. Richard Harvey & Friends didnt just create a flightsim...they created a helping community of friends with no ethnic or religious boundries. In the world we live in...what could be better.Steve :-bat "The Best Aid To Navigation, Is Having Been There Before" ;-)

[michal 44]

an interesting footnote: my friend embarked on a mission to buy really expensive ski boots (he is even considering custom-made boots). The first thing he did he bought all these skiing magazines and searched for boots reviews, etc. He found plenty of "these boots are nice because of this ..." but never any negatives or anything that would compare one with another. I guess these glossy magazines (80% of the content is just advertising) would not want to offend any manufacturer therefore adopted this attitude - let's write only nice things ...Michael J.

[Roger Mazengarb 0]

G'day Michael,>He found plenty of "these boots are nice because of this >..." but never any negatives or anything that would compare >one with another. I guess these glossy magazines (80% of the >content is just advertising) would not want to offend any >manufacturer therefore adopted this attitude - let's write >only nice things ... It goes a little deeper. We had a case not long ago in Sydney where a reviewer for a local magazine gave a Restaurant a bad review. He was taken to court sued for defamation and the Resautrant was awarded VERY substantial damages.There is an "unwritten law" in advertising that you don't promote your product by tearing down the oposition product. One doesn't need negatives in order to compare.I honestly believe that this dictum should be followed in the forums here at Avsim.Cheers,Roger @YSSY

[Guest]

You hit a major point -- we set out not just to create a new software product, but to bring the community together as well. For many years the community had to yell to deaf ears asking for issues and features to be addressed. We wanted (and did) jump in head first to be involved in the daily sim community. That caused ripples that forced our competitors to improve their products, and in the end the community had a win-win situation: good competition, better products and features from all companies involved, and a true ear of the developer listening to their wants and needs. I wish it could have continued for much longer, but the community lives on...Rich

[Guest Dean]

>We had a case not long ago in >Sydney where a reviewer for a local magazine gave a >Restaurant a bad review. He was taken to court sued for >defamation and the Resautrant was awarded VERY substantial >damages. A reviewer got sued, and lost, for a bad review? Has he ever given another restaurant a bad review? It's one thing to voice an opinion, good or bad, and quite another to defame someone or their business. Reviewers are supposed to give us an unbiased opinion about a product or service so that we can make a decision if we want to spend money for that particular product or service. If a reviewer has nothing but warm fuzzies for everything they review, it would make their opinion slightly suspect. Michael's point is well taken. A magazine that accepts advertising dollars from the same companies whose products they review is not going to bite the hand that feeds them. A case in point here in the US is Consumer Reports magazine. They accept no advertising and they don't pull any punches when it comes to their product reviews. They are occasionally sued and have never lost. Dean Karis

[Guest]

So true Rich,I know in my own case, suffering with depression for nearly 7 years, I ended up being stuck in the house, being to ill to leave... even to go to the local shops. Then came Fly II and Avsim. Now Im out most days, driving again and having the most fun I have had in years, all thinks to you Rich and all the guys here who are always willing to help. For many of us this simm and community has changed our lives. And some changes are in ways we would never have guest.Good health to you and your family.

[Guest]

My biggest disappointment *now* with FLY is that it no longer represents any real level of competition with the MSFS monopoly. X-plane keeps drifting off into the unreality of "Mars fanatasy", so there really is nothing to spur flight sim development along anymore. Given the unfortunate result of FLY, I doubt any developer will jump into the flight sim arena anytime soon. As Rich points out, even the die hard MSFS users won with FLY around whether they knew it or not. Mike Monce