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Fly!2 CTD - I'm at a total loss and ready to give up

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After a month of experimentation and rolling back to version 40.72 (WHQL Certified) NVidia drivers, I am still getting unexplainable CTD's with no error log whatsoever.I have probably flown 40 times since I first reported this problem, and I would estimate that I've only been able to complete a flight 4 or 5 times. My take-off and cruise skills are sharp. But I can't seem to get through a flight into the landing.Today I crashed using the Pilatus and then the United Airlines B757 (PMDG). For those who may be able to solve this, here is a thread that went on for a few weeks, with many suggestions - all of which I tried, none of which seem to have helped.http://forums.avsim.com/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=18107&page=3Today I was using the Render.ini attached (first text file) and the Fly.ini attached (second text file). If anyone with serious Windows XP (Home) experience and NVidia experience can help, I would be so appreciative. I have gotten to a point where I simply cannot fly. -DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v40.72, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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does your cpu get hot? what are you using? FLY will crash to the desktop if there's a cpu related problem, usually it getting too hot. I can tell you this with certainty because I overclock extensively and use FLY2 to determine if the cpu is not being maxed out. When I do, it quickly goes to the desktop. It can take anywhere form 5 seconds, as I rotate the plane in complex scenery, or 10 minutes, as I am flying.tony

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David ;Your using the same Render .INI file as mine with Ati cardExcept that your Vertex index is set @ 8 , Mine is set @ 5Jeff

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Before giving up completely, if it were me, I would try putting a fresh install of Fly!2 on my hard drive. I wouldn't delete the installation I have now, but (temporarily) rename the directory to something like Fly!2_Original.Then I would run the Fly!2 installation from the CD and install to a new Fly!2 directory. By doing this all of the installation references in the Registry would not be disturbed or changed and to get rid of it later, after I'm done testing, I could just delete this whole directory, and rename my original back to what it was.Anyway, once I have a new installation I would update it with all of the patches and then try a long flight, with no other add-ons. If the program still CTDs then I know I have a driver or a hardware problem. If it doesn't, then that tells me that I'm having a conflict with some of my add-on Dlls, scenery or aircraft.

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Hi, David.There are many things that can cause CTDs. I will try to point out some of them below. I know that you may have gone through this before, but there may be something new that you did not try, so let

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There may be something to the post on heat. Nobody ever suggested this before, and I do know my CPU is running warm. Moreso, this problem really started getting bad about 2 months ago, just as it started getting warmer here in NY (and thus the room where my PC is also gets warmer).I have an extra internal fan (the PCI card-slot type) which I bought specifically to keep the PC cooler, but I'm wondering if maybe this is a heat problem. I am NOT overclocking, but despite that, I do run a PC with lots of stuff in it - 2 hard drives, wireless 802.11b card, modem card, etc.In terms of when this problem happens, it's happened in just about every situation I can think of, and on all aircraft. Every view, while I'm turning views, and sometimes when I'm not even at my PC. I've had it occur when new scenery loads, I've also had it occur while flying over Fly!2 generic scenery with no extra disk I/O. But all said, heat could be a factor.If this is the case, how do I determine if it is. I can't exactly put ice on my PC, and other than waiting until the Fall, the ambient room temp is probably not going to fluctuate much.Suggestions?-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v44.03, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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>1-What system do you have? See below in my Sig. Card is an VisionTek XTacy Ti4600>2-Is it Overclocked? , if it is to what stage? Its not overclocked. >3-Did you ever run 3Dmark2001 on that system, successfully? I don't know what 3DMark2001 is (and I've not run it)>4-What aircraft are you using when the CTDs occur. Its happened on every aircraft I have in my hanger - default and add-ons>5-What view/ Cockpit, external? All views >6-What are your settings for scenery?, Medium, High res etc? See my Fly.ini file - I can't recall for sure off the top of my head. Its posted in the initial post to this thread >7-Are you running any other apps in the background, Norton>etc. or any FlyII related Tasks, Flyscripts! etc. I have Nortan Antivirus, but I turn off auto-protect prior to running Fly. I have FlyScripts, but I've had the CTD both when FlyScripts was activated and when its not been activated.>8-Is your paging enabled in the performance menu?Paging is enabled. Paging is on C: whereas I run Fly!2 on another HD. Don't know if that is meaningful but I figured I'd mention it.>9-Do you use T&L? I usually use T&L, but Fly!2 crashes in both TRIDX8.dll and TRIDX8T&L.dll. Note that I have DirectX9.0a on my XP machine. >10-What are your resources during the play period? To find>out: Right click on Task bar, Task manager, >start before you start FLYII, then start FlyII,

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MBM5 is the new motherboard monitoring software available for free. This will monitor the temperature of the cpu and the case. You can set the alarm, and if the cpu hits that temperature, the alarm will sound. This program will run in the background,so you can run FLY2 and this program simultaneously. You can also run a program,cpuburn, which will stress the cpu. when you run this program ,you can watch the temperature go up as time passes. An amd chip will lock up at appx 60 dg centigrade, so if at any time you see these temperature, FLY2 is indeed in trouble. I have my cpu running at 45, and with FLY2 running it reaches 52.From your description, however, it also sounds like you're running a lot of add ons. As someone suggested, whay don't you reload FLY into another directory for these purposes? FLY does not write anything to the registry, so you can copy and transfer anything once it's stable.By the way, the same thing applys to the video card with respect to heat. I am not familiar with the 4600, so I would make sure that there's pleanty of air circulation.tony

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Where do I get this MBM5? Note that I run an Intel processor - does MBM5 apply to this? You mention the AMD chip above. Just checking.-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v44.03, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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Hello David,"I use Jure's Big Mammas. I often load METAR. I cannot for sure say I've only crashed with METAR loaded, but this is my preferred way to fly, so its possible (I haven't kept track), that I CTD only when METAR is loaded. I'll give a few flights a shot without any clouds to see if I can come up with anything on WX."I usualy only get CTD when I use METAR. Didn't research it, but that's why I dont't use Metars and crashed to desktop very seldom.RodgerP4 with 512MB RamGeforce TI 4200Nvidia driver 44.03

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look it up in the google search engine as Motherboard monitor. Intel chips run cooler, so it doesn't look good. Let me know if don't find it. I can e-mail it to you. It's public ware.tony

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Tony ;What does this mean when CPU TEMP is zero, The Temp fan is zero, Although i have a cpu fan and case fan running ?PicThanks JEff

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Actually, your sensor 1 appears to be your cpu temperature and sensor 2, your case. In the motherboard setup phase, be sure that you pay extra attention in matching the correct sensors with your particular motherboard. You can change the name sensor 1 to read cpu, etc. Most motherboards have a couple of sensors for temperature, and one is right on the chip itself. The fan reading comes from that third wire that sometimes a fan comes with, and it's plugged in a three wire terminal. Also, MB5 provides you with the option to have the temp displayed in centigrade as well. Go into your bios and look for the "hardware" part, in which you should see the temperature displayed. Use a program like cpuburn and watch the cpu temp increase. It's actually duplicating the conditions of a graphic intensive program like fLY2. In sum, configure MBM5 to display cpu, case temperature and your fan speed.tony

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Davidthe temperature readout using the thermal diode (which is what MBM5 probably uses) is very unreliable. If you knew the rang e of values which your CPU likes you could check if the temperatures at which your CTDs occur are significantly higher. But your situaiton is different, you cannot tell a high value (which may happen to be perfectly allright) from a temperature increase (which may indicate a problem).So I suggest to do everything possible to reduce the temperature in your computer case just for a test. Open the case and disable as many components as possible (pull the power plug) only those which really produce heat of course (additional harddrives for example) leave CD drives alone.Take a hair drier and have it blow cold (!) air inside the open computer case but take care not to overspin the fan on the CPU itself. It is enough to create a good airflow. Test run using Fly and wait for a CTD. If it doesn't happen - good! If it does in spite of lower temperatures in your case the next suspect would be a dying power supply. If a friend happens to have a good 350W or above PSU then test that. From my own experience a dead or dying power suppply can create all sorts of problems.Prion PS: What happened to your awesome satellite landscapes? I've been away from flight simming for some time and am not up to date, but I liked the screenies that you posted very much.

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the diodes are unreliable, but I would still use them to see if, under load, the cpu increases in temperature at a rate that would indicate insufficient cooling.tony

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Hi David.>>3-Did you ever run 3Dmark2001 on that system,>successfully? I don't know what 3DMark2001 is (and I've not>run it)This is a free benchmark util. but it does change the mode of the Video and uses most of the attributes of the GPU. I find a lot of the problems with the drivers / system compat. with it. I would try it and see what you get.>>4-What aircraft are you using when the CTDs occur. Its>happened on every aircraft I have in my hanger - default and>add-ons>>5-What view/ Cockpit, external? All views >>6-What are your settings for scenery?, Medium, High res etc?>See my Fly.ini file - I can't recall for sure off the top>of my head. Its posted in the initial post to this thread>Try C172, cockpit mode for this test.>>7-Are you running any other apps in the background, Norton>>etc. or any FlyII related Tasks, Flyscripts! etc. I have>Nortan Antivirus, but I turn off auto-protect prior to running>Fly. I have FlyScripts, but I've had the CTD both when>FlyScripts was activated and when its not been activated.This could be a problem, but we can look at it later, there are many tasks / services, running in the background in an XP.>>8-Is your paging enabled in the performance menu?Paging is>enabled. Paging is on C: whereas I run Fly!2 on another HD.>Don't know if that is meaningful but I figured I'd mention>it.This could be the one thing that may help the most, disable this, you only need it for large apps. Photo Shop etc. and it's a real problem child.>>12-What is the WX set at? Clouds, Vis. etc. I use Jure's>Big Mammas. I often load METAR. I cannot for sure say I've>only crashed with METAR loaded, but this is my preferred way>to fly, so its possible (I haven't kept track), that I CTD>only when METAR is loaded. I'll give a few flights a shot>without any clouds to see if I can come up with anything on>WX.Try no clouds and Med res. and Hi res around 6, Straight and level on AP for a while.Good luck. TV

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Hello David,Forgot to add that in addition to the render file I uploaded to you that I added an additional case fan. No CTD's since before my last post to you. I hope you get it figured out cause I shared the frustration you had. I love this sim but it really starts to bum you out when you get into a good flight (especially approach or short final) and get a CTD. CFSIII will still CTD with high graphics settings.Zane

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Went through the setup screens (help) on MBM5, but I can't seem to get any sensors except clock speed. I have a Dell, using a Pentium 4. That said, I bought a UPS yesterday and plan to buy a small external fan that I can clip to the leg of my desk and blow some more cool air around the back of the PC.I have an internal (2nd) PC slot fan, I'm going to move that to the slot right next to the NVidia card.I also installed the latest Omega drivers yesterday. Someone reported that they are more stable than the latest 44.30 drivers on NVidia's website.I'll report back shortly....-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v44.03, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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I was under the understanding that this is ignored for NVidia cards. What does this number mean?-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v44.03, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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I'm still getting CTD's. I just took a flight from KHIE to KBOS. About 20 minutes into it in the Cessna 172 with no clouds, daylight clear conditions, I did a quick outside scan of the scenery and >>> boom 802.11b card and modem are the only two I could take out. Sound I need and extra HD is where Fly!2 is installed).This is leading me to believe it is, in fact, heat. I had moved my PC-slot fan (which sucks air out of the PC, designed to increase overall airflow) next to the VisionTek card, in hopes that it would help pull the hot air away from the card. But it appears that this didn't help. I wasn't able to get MBM to work.I'm gonna try one more experiment... I have a fan in the basement. I'm going to clip it to the leg of the table next to my PC and run it so it blows ambient air to the back of the case. Maybe that'll take the temp down a degree or two. Maybe it'll work.BTW: Any opinions on the PC-Slot fan that "sucks" air out? Could this be doing more damage than helping? It seemed like a good idea when I bought it - keep the air moving - but maybe I'm missing something.-DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v44.03, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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Here`s some real-world experience regarding temperatures: Above 42 degrees celsius inside an electronics cabinet is like seconds from mailfunctioning, or a total blackout. Have had this problem on several occasions...the whole plant shutting down without any pre-warning. When you get around this temp inside the cabinet (or PC), the temperature inside all those tiny components on the PCB might have passed around 70 degrees celsius, which is the industry standard Max Tolerance temp. If you want more than that, you order Mil-Spec components. Guess your GF is NOT Mil-Spec :-hah Just info, no solution...

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Hi, Andrew.Long time since I exchanged information with you.Are you still writing code for Fly!? I agree with your Case temps. The Case temps should be in the 30s, typically around 27 is considered Room temp.Actually a good rule of thumb that we use is junction temps are aprox. 3x the Surface temps, convection cooling / no heat sink.But we are now talking about the sensor that is inside the die itself, which is very close to the transistor array. At least that is what the Athlons have. TV

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Hi TV,I have spoken with you before, was that in the Falcon4 forum? Anyway, I have been in here since Fly! I remember you for shure, going a long time back. But I am not a code guy, only a scenery developer, and electrician :)And I see you know your business. I absolutely agree with your case temperatures, and your thumb rules. I remember two years ago, sitting in the control room on a sophisticated survey vessel, I told the chief engineer that if the temp raised above 45 degrees, we might get a blackout on one of the two 4MW propeller drives or both. Thirty seconds later we lost one of the drives and I spilt my coffee. Should have kept my mouth shut.We solved it by running the drives with open doors, and adding new fans! Like I had to to with my AMD computer in summertime in order to avoid unexpected CTD`s. I`m better off with my new P4, cool CPU this one, never passing 50 degrees celsius.

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