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KenWood

Is there a case for an improved autogen?

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Why can't we look at autogen and see if someone can add more features to it? I like the idea of populating the scenery as I fly.tony

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Hi there,Autogen is an old tool some people played with some time ago (can't remember all of them). Some autogen add-in were really good but haven't been developped anymore ...The development of such an add-in is not a matter of fact, but it needs a lot of time to be implemented. I would like to try to expand what I did many months ago ... but I'm working in an other BIG project with AITraffic and it takes yet enough of my spare time.Richard and TRI left a chunk of code that only waits to be developped.Cheers,laurentC

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... but, you know what ? It's a great idea fo a project if many of you have 3D objetct to place to the ground ... let's think about it some time.The first thing to do would be to collect all the stuff that has been done yet, see what can be improved and where, then prepare a tool that allow one to tweak the placement and frequence of the 3D objects to the ground according to the scenery type (gentex or user) ... That sounds right ?laurentC (rotw)

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Hi Steve,That's fine ! Just keep in mind that we need some low poly object for cities that are more typed than USA or Australian ones (european, sud american ... and other countries). The challage is with very few polygons to create the feeling of typed countries pattern ... and trees.Cheers,Laurent (rotw)http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/92959.gif

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If you agree, I will propose a project for development here and see what can be done ...L.

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Hi again,I revisited AVSIM library and take a new look at :The Super Quickgen, version 2.0Authors: Bj

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Well, Laurent, the Super Quickgen is a great program. And for the time it was created, it did a great job. We need a bit more fluidity with how scenery pop ups( if you recall, this is a Richard Harvey issue from the first day the sim came out). Also, the water areas have models, lots of them, in the water. I believe I removed Super Quickgen after teleporting to the island of Corsica, at Campo dell'oro. I would like to try simple experiments, for example, to see how we can populate the landscape with trees( or more correctly, vegetation), so many that the landscape appears more uniform with vegetation.. I will install it again and fly with it for a while, to refreshen my memory.tony

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Great. :-) Before my FS9 disks were ruined I studied how the microsoft guys made their models. My FS 2002 works great though and I can copy those kind of buildings and ideas. My models are more frame rate happy now after my friend Andrew Thomsen told me about how to deleate areas not seen and used on buildings, and its made a big difference ;-) Though Im still having problems with Welding, I noticed that when putting them into Fly2 there is an option to weld for you. Anyway, what I make I will put in a pod and send them to you if you like Laurent.The models that are not used I will add to my next models pod, so its no problem.If anyone has textures I can use for this project please send them too me at wasp@brown8506.freeserve.co.uk I have broadband so no worries.What Im looking for!Fronts of houses, buildings, shops... head on is best, but I can correct this if the angle isnt too high or to the side.Some of you guys have sent some great pictures already, thankyou.SteveMy Websitehttp://www.wrexhamspace.orghttp://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ysomdesign/banner.jpg

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Ok !If we want to get another autogen, we first need to define our goals.I noted that water problem and fps fluidity were ahead of the list ; have you other request ?Also : Ken Salter (our forum moderator, eh, eh !) made a great work with his autogen. We should ask to him if we can improve his work prior to reivent the whell, should we ?Steve, among all the tricks I can imagine to reduce the fps drop, there's the swap technique between hide and low poly models.Aircrafts and 3D objects have this opportunity hard coded yet with tags parameters (even if we use them not very often). You should then, prepare sets of hight and low quality models. Hight model are models that one can recognize by VFR while low model are only shapes of object that popups in the horizon line. This way we can have few hight models around the aircraft and a lot of small fps object far away. Who cares about trees shape in the horizon, eh, eh ?Laurent

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... Another thing : we can swap between two models (hight and low) but we can't get rid of them. One must be loaded ! So the trick is to have a void object (a transparent surface) that is uploaded in place of the oject we want to remove from the scene. A sort of decoy ...I used the ScenGen program this afternoon and, besides it is prepared with many trees, I maintain a good fps (I've got an 'old' PC AMD 1700 with a middle class graphic card !).I think that what we need is this program with some modifications to manage popup models and avoid water : do you agree with me ?laurent

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I agree, but on the fps issue.... the pop up approach that FLY2 uses with autogen does create some unusual "stutters", even with very powerful cpus like mine--amd 3200. I recall taking the citabria and doing a tight figure eight turn. Those autogen models( and I had everything at maximum) did interfere with the "fluidity" of the scene.It's that "real time" approach that FLY2 uses for scenery generation. Also, what Msfs has is overall more dense feel to the scenery, and the autogen models , therefore, don't look like homeless children. In Fly2, I believe that the challenge is to create "generic" models that literally paint the scenery. This is why perhaps autogen could perhaps become FLY2 answer to a more dense and real scenery as we go lower in altitude.I agree also that defining the goal and the possibilities of a Super Quickgen 2 would be the first steps.tony

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Think that a pool of various generic object with low poly is enough to work and see what's coming up ... Nothing looks more than a two story building that another two story building (or three) in the horizon !Tony's idea is a good idea : we must give some complexity to the ground at low altitude. It's tha whole thing that matters, not the details ...Laurent

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Steve,Let me know, if you have a set of simple 3d objects to test ... I will try to prepare a dll to test the ideas.Cheers,Laurent

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Good !Those building will be right for the tests : can you prepare now a grey "cube" for the far view (uh ! Five poly ? Without the ground one ?) and one I forgotten previously ... the night texture ?CheersLaurent

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Hello folks,I have nothing to offer in this exciting project for FLY2, perhaps after FLYing SENECA V (this aircraft is a joy to fly) which I don't know when,I hope I can contribute something.In the meantime I just want to thank you guys for your projects and to be a moral support for what you're doing to make this wonderful flightsim enjoyable.Cheers.chris_CA

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Hi LaurentC (.. and Tony and all other interested),late but hopefully not too late I want to share this discussion.I did not know about ScenGen and did some tests actually. I think it would be a good base for further development as- Ken might be so kind to give you the source-code for further improvements- ScenGen has some basic scripting abilities- at least with my PC (AMD Barton 2500, 128 MB video RAM) there is no relevant stuttering with the basic objects (max alt 4000, 100%))Adding to the already discussed problems (more fluendly, more objects, no objects in water areas) I would like the "new ScenGen" to put objects into custom texture, ie. satellite or aerial photo derived textures. This is impossible with ScenGen, as (so I do understand it) ScenGen gets the texture-number actually used via FLY's API. If you use another than generic textures FLY won't report a special number, so ScenGen cannot work.Is it possible to "register" user textures, so that the NEW ScenGen could be configured for those? Or if not possible, could the NEW ScenGen read some sort of config-file for user textures(..from the special DATA folder for that region, if made by a scenery-designer)?This could be a big step forward for all satellite texture areas - and isn't it the same problem with TerraScene generated areas?Anyway, thank you for your work for a better ScenGen!Georg "HeliFLYer" EDDWBTW:I did not STOP only PAUSE my work with Landsat7 texture for FLY! due to a unforseeable heavy workload at the job AND technical problems with fitting very big pics (though WSG84 have to be corrected a little for FLY otherwise airports do not fit sufficient). But I am working on it and "boosting" the low-res textures with AUTOGEN would be great.Here you find some samples of the actual work:http://www.nord-com.net/vollnhals-bremen/FLY-LS7

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Sorry Laurent, did you need them down to 5 poly?Email me at wasp@brown8506.freeserve.co.uk and I will send you the models I have. I didnt make anything today as we are having our walls plastered. But I have grouped together textures I can use and I will also just do greys for you of the ones I have made in a day or so. I still have all the files stored in 3ds max! I havent made night textures as yet, I like to do them later after I have done a number of models. Then I just sink my teeth into the night textures :-lol SteveMy Websitehttp://www.wrexhamspace.orghttp://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ysomdesign/banner.jpg

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Hi Steeve, Georg "HeliFLYer" EDDWI call you today ... The autogen with user sceneries in more complicated than a mere distribution of 3d objetct over general textures. If we prepare something for the 3d objects placement too accurate we've got again the Fly! scenery editor ... I don't say that can't be done : I just think that is a real big challange that I hardly cannot reasonably manage for the moment ... especially without any good vision of what we can make up yet with a new gentex autogen ... does it make sens ?Cheers,Laurent

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Hi LaurentC,thanks for your reply. I read you "The autogen with user sceneries * IS * more complicated .." and I agree fully. It wasn't meant to put a heavy workload on your shoulders especially as you have given so many wonderful tools to us the last time (.. I LOVE the combination of ROTW ND and Seneca V!).All you will and can do to improve autogen (ScenGen)is ok and very wellcome. And you are right - if one creates a fotorealistic scenery it is not such a big thing to use the FLY! editor and put some objects in there - I'll do so and hope that Steve will create a lot of new objects!Thank you for all your work and creativity!Best regardsGeorg "HeliFLYer" EDDW

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Yes, lots of new objects are coming ;-) Nothing fantastic though as Im still a newbee and lots to learn and little time to do it. In the next few days I will send you some objects to test Georg :-) Laurent, I have made a few objects like those in FS9 very simple buildings with grey textures for the far off views, I just have to do the night textures now and I will send them to you tomorrow. So you will have 3 versions of each model...1 far off grey version2 day texture3 night textureI will send you about 10 models to try for now.Oh, I got your email, thankyou. :-) Im sure everyone knows this is a very hard thing to do, but if nothing comes from it in a Quick Gen Format, we will still have a lot of low poly buildings from me in the near future. I can understand too how hard it would be for you to make this work on photorealistic scenery. Im enjoying the idea of this new project...Cheers my friends, SteveMy Websitehttp://www.wrexhamspace.orghttp://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ysomdesign/banner.jpg

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Thank you Steve,luckily the next weekend is one of the rare sort without having to stay on the job! Looking forward to fire FLY! and have some fun with testing the new objects. And will have a look for some other pics for you then, ie. generic objects (not looking TOO German..).Cheers, my friendGeorg

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