Sign in to follow this  
Guest Robs

New Planes

Recommended Posts

Hi AllHow big a deal is it to design new planes?I quite fancy an RAF chipmunk!I would be grateful if people could point me to the places to read (or even answer directly) the following questions.Repaints seem easy - bmps and resviewer right?Flight dynamics - how do you tamper with these? Tools already written?Cockpits - these look difficult - how? and how long?Anything else needs considering??Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Rob,Cockpit design can be mastered in a matter of a few weeks... repainting is easier than that (good repainting is another matter)... but for a new 3D model... well you need to talk to Ansgar about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Rob,hmmmmm, the answer is quite easy:With my main gmax-thread I wrote some day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ansgar,Thanks for your reply and your comments.Let's start from the ground up!My background is "sciency". Maths, Physics, Flight Dynamics etc I can do on a blackboard. My programming experiences are from Basic and Assembler (PC, Z80 or whatever - all very similar except the memory on PC is a bit tricky!).I have downloaded resviewer and repainted some aircraft (with others artwork!). It looks technically simple to export artwork, change it and reimport it - although the storches luftwaffe desert paintwork spots are stretched on the nose as the artwork is curved around. I'd guess the first job for an aircraft would be to put a square grid texture on the aircraft and see how the squares stretch to better judge the artwork! Opps digressing.I have also downloaded cockpit designer and have added some missing panels (again from downloaded data files). I haven't got into moving/positioning/defining dials etc yet or any of the virtual cockpit design but this is where we get into 3 d modelling. I have no experience in 3d modelling (and of course this is the bit that intrigues me!! - incidentally one of the resons I liked the FU series was the flight dynamics - I like the gliding which is one of the purest forms of flying and a great achievment for a fligh sim to allow slope soaring although I haven't felt any thermals in FU3).I checked your link about gmax but I haven't got to LG's white paper yet. The link on gmax seemed to be converting files from 3d modeling tools to a format for FU3 etc. I really need to be a step back and askHow do I start 3d modelling for FU3?What do I need to read and where do I find it?Also I am curious as to why add on planes are based on exisitng planes? Just easier?Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,thanks for your good description above. After knowing that you know all the physics and a little about programming, that are very good conditions to start also with 3D-modeling!Sure you must be a little bit ambitious to learn all this, but that I could read also "between the lines". ;-)After changing the avsim forum to a new one (some month ago) we lost some of the good old "learning threads" where we can find all the important "basics" and "how to do

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh God, that sounds complicated :-eekHow many of these steps can I ignore if I want to build some high detail AI planes ?Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,incidentally one of the resons I liked the FU series was the flight dynamics - I like the gliding which is one of the purest forms of flying and a great achievment for a fligh sim to allow slope soaring although I haven't felt any thermals in FU3).There is a thermal under every cloud, the biger the cloud the stronger the lift.And you should experince a littl more terbulance.But if you,r too low under a cloud you wont feel anything.Thats sumthing fore you to chek out when you need a brake from modeling frustration.I wounce crosed Seattle from the West mountons to the Est mountons useing thermalsonly.I tried to make a Blak Box of it but the clouds will not stay in sink.glidernut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris,it only looks complicated if you see all together (re-importing of existing models with all it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Glidernut,If you already own a 3D-studio version 2.5 this should be used by you first if you didn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ansgar,Hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions here because I need to get a bit more simple. Could you please confirm or correct my readbackI need to split a plane build down into a few areas1) Outside bodywork ; to define the outside shape of a plane, I need a 3d modelling tool package. Sounds like I need GMAX (this is the free one, yes?). Where do I download this?Then I need to learn it, define a plane shape (800 odd polygons) with axles for moving panels and undergear and then export it in *.E (?) file format. Run *.E thru BSP.exe to get *.bin which resviewer can then import into the FU3 plane.2) Paintwork; Any graphics package that can define and export *.bmp to import to resviewer. (probably best left to last as this is the fun bit!)3)Flight Physics ; download and use tool fu3physics.zip4)Cockpit working; this I am fuzzy on..using cockpitdesigner utility I guess you can define and position guages and switches yes.The reason you mention the resource files is so that you can use the renegade and beechjet switches without redefining them all, yes?5)Internal views; graphic package expoeting *.bmp files and using the cockpit designer import them and design the windows. (I have already done this for your 747!)6) Virtual cockpit; I am confused how you define this as cockpitdesigner tutorial doesn't describe how to do this and I haven't had enough mucking about time on this. How do you model the internal shape of the windows and patch the cocpit art on. Is this the outside views in cockpit designer? Also do you do the windows with the outside rectangles?7) Did I forget any jobs in here?Very Grateful for your help!Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob,You can download version 1.2 of gmax from the following location:-www.discreet.com/products/gmaxClick on the large gmax icon towards the upper right, and you will be presented with a download page. I would advise you to download the INSTALLER (this is gmax 1.2 itself; size = 19Mb), and the TUTORIALS package (size = 14Mb).You will need to register to receive a special code (otherwise gmax will not run), but this does not cost you anything.I have these installed, but I haven't done anything yet. I will probably have a look at the GETTING STARTED section of the tutorials over the weekend.I just hope that I can grasp the basics :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,YES! In the most cases you understand it correct, so I only comment some details here;-)You also see that a complete model is a very huge amount of work! And there it is no question or difference if you do it for FS2002 or FU3, the work is nearly the same.1) Chris has already described where you can get gmax, so no answer from me here. For an flyable plan you should try to come close to the maximum of 1900 polygons, 800 gives an relative poor quality. Calculate before! you start the project for which part you would allow how much polygons. This makes it easier to detail the needed parts within this selfdefined limits of polys.As described above you can

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ansgar, I wonder if you could help me with a question also. I found a Tigermoth made for FS98-2K and I converted to a DXL using the utility you mentioned. However when I import it into gmax it does even vaguely ressemble something that could ever fly. Are there particulier import options to set or is it a compatibility problem.Thanks,Quentin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jim B,I now have Adobe Acrobat Reader, and I can read the Pdf file.Quentin,Ye, mw too, well simuler.I got sum gliders from FS98, and put them throo the {Mdl2dxf21.exe} tooland thay look grate in the {3D Exploration program}, But thay wont go into {gamex} or my {3D Studio MAX}.I think I was a bit prematuwer in thinking thees particuler modeling programswill work on my Windows XP. Thats sods lor.Quentin,I think your out of luk too. Ansgar sed only sum of the FS98-2K models willconvert suksesfly.Lets hope Im rong.glidernut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Quentin,hi Glidernut,here are a link to different versions of MDL2DXF converters:http://home.swipnet.se/~w-50954/hv/mdl/mdl.htmMy experience is, that the version V3.2 is the best of all and works in most cases.1) After the mdl2dxf conversion you should look to the so converted *.dxf file (not the mdl-file!) with 3D-Exploration. If the dxf-file looks close to an correct model the import to gmax V1.2 or 3D-Studio must work also correct! I never had an problem to import it to gmax correct once the dxf-file is OK.2) If all conversions fail the model is incompatible with the mdl2dxf.exe converter. The dxf-file looks in 3D-Exploration then like an horrend amount of confusing polygons. This damaged conversions result looks often like an confusing form of a "star of polygons".I often had this porblem with files created for FS2000 or higher. The FS95 files often works correct. And FS98 gives you a chance of 40% that the conversion works. Most of the last higher quality models are build with FSDS and therefore the conversion goes wrong. Pls. look to the size of the *.MDL source file. If this is greater than 500-600kb the conversion often is not possible.Ansgar A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ansgar A.>1) After the mdl2dxf conversion you should look to the so converted *.dxf file >(not the mdl-file!)Yes, I understand that. >with 3D-Exploration. If the dxf-file looks close to an correct model the import >to gmax V1.2 or 3D-Studio must work also correct! It should but it dont.I tryed using the other mdl2dxf converters, but thay gave the same reslt, looksgood in 3D-Exploration, but still not go into gmax V1.2 or 3D-Studio.But it should, so I keep trying.Yes I did it, yipeeee, I got it inot my 3D-Studio at last.This is how.I converted the (*.dxf) file into a (*.3ds) file using crossroads.You can get crossroads hear,http://home.europa.com/~keithr/crossroads/Im Thinking this little crossroads program might be usefal to others as well.Thank you Ansgar, glidernut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ansgar,Where do you get the correct sounds for engines etc (I guess you can fake flaps and gears from resources ripped from default FU3 aircraft). Some aircraft make such distinctive sound that faking it is not possible (eg good ol' Spitty!)Maybe you own a 747 and can record suitable wav files!!!Also are AI aircraft much different? Res file place somewhere else without flight dynamics or cockpit?Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,the sources I got from several free sources in the internet. You only can get them from other sources of mostly older FS95/98/2000 models.If the sound sources are not free you must remix them very heavily.To my shame I didn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ansgar,I am really glad I asked these question because the answer to my original question is designing new planes is a really big deal.I also appreciate the effort that has gone into to providing the dc3 or 747 that I downloaded for free.You should know I have really enjoyed the DC3!I was thinking that the best way for me to start 3D modeling is with some simple scenery and low polygon stuff to get my confidence and expertise up before I try a more complicated plane shape.(I have a feeling that texture etc may be more difficult than it sounds).When I have a couple of correctly scaled houses done, I'll call back and try my hand at some AI planes! Or even player planes.Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont have an F16.But I do have thees.Are thay any good to any one?If any one wants any of them, say so, and Iill send them on as is.F14STAND.MAXF14.MAXF18.MAX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ansgar,I think i will try a few objects and then try to do a small airstrip for the UK scenery (when it arrives) and possible go from there, or some POI's.Off the thread a bit here - if I were to do a small glider strip somewhere it is possible to define balloons. parachutists, gliders, hangliders and helicopters that commonly operate at these airstrips?(obviously in moderation)Would you do them as AI aircraft or can you define moving objects that move thru space (instead of along the ground)?it would be interesting as glider cables etc provide additional hazards for VFR aircraft entering a glider field.I have been reading Mr Driscols tuttorial and might start with text object first before downloading Gmax.Anyway I'll let you know how I get on!!Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Glidernut,Wow! Are that your sources?! Especially the last two (F14.max and F18.max) are looking very promising. If they have not much more then 2000 polygons they would be ideal to have jets in FU3!Can you please check the amount of poly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this