Sign in to follow this  
Guest cornclose

New clouds for FU3...

Recommended Posts

Ok, I've done some digging in sky.res and have decoded most of the sky textures which resviewer can't, which obviously means I can now change them.Before I embark on such a project, I'd like some feedback as to what anomalies there are in the FU3 weather (some which I know of but some which I might not), and what else in the weather system (in terms of textures) you like or do not like.I don't intend to replace all of the textures, just elements of them to make the sky better, or at least different.I will be using some of my textures from the FS2000/2002 and X-Plane cloud addons for this, and developing some new ones to suit the purpose.So, any suggestions or ideas ?RegardsChris E, ENGLANDhttp://www.circle-software.co.ukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Chris,This is an excellent idea. That horrible high cloud texture that I mentioned on another thread has to be replaced.......as soon as possible. I also think that there should be a bit more variety when it comes to cloud shape, since they all seem to look the same ! Is this possible ?Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's interesting! I'd say the main thing is to soften the transition between cloud classes, to limit the effect in the image that you posted. I don't know if that's possible though.Some clouds look a bit too solid and "toyish" and it might be an idea soften their sides and bases. We get well-defined white mushrooms drifting around and a little less substance might look more convincing.More solid clouds tend to be wider on top and coalesce into larger units. Hans Petter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that does annoy me about the weather engine is the ridiculous speed at which weather changes. It can be raining with a completely overcast sky, and then suddenly the rain stops, the clouds lighten......and then almost disappear completely. This all happens in the space of SECONDS ! :-eekIs this something that can be amended ?Chris Low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Chris,to increase the cloud models quality is an wonderfull idea and very important upgrade to FU3!!!A long time ago I stated this, but I myself didn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris E,You have decoded most of the sky textures, WOUW!! No one els has ever managed to penetrate the seacrets of the sky.res.you must be sumthing speshal.If you can make any changes at all, then its a big leep forwerd for FU3.I agree with Hans Petter, if we can see throo the clouds a bit more,thay would be much beter.Can we hav a grater variety, or can we only change wat we hav ?The model of the cloud with the face in it that meny peopl dont like,is too small. So if you use this model it will only ever cuver a smallpart of the sky.From the point of vew of gliding, every cloud has a thermal under it,exept for the 2 very high flat cloud models and that extreemly bigone that you only ever get one of.Mor clouds meens mor thermals.We need at leest 5 tims mor clouds for good thermal soring.But even if we had mor clouds "which we dont" the frame rate would betoo mutch for eny grafics card to cope with.But if you can make the clouds invisibl, or almost invisibl, useing asfewer poligons as posibl, then we are harf way to a gliding paradise.If you are in a decoding frame of mind, this observation might be usfal to you.The clouds with thermals atached to them also hav terbulansatached to them, but the lift under a cloud decreeses in strenth withdecreesing altitued to 0 at sea level.But the amaount of terbulans under a cloud is constent regardles of altitued.Both terbulans and lift are alined verticaly with the cloud, regardlesof wind speed, and both reech the top of the cloud. glidernut.:-wave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I was never that keen on the stodgy, yet ever morphing cumulous. I have to say, I always liked the way FS2002 handled its clouds. I don't know if that's heresy, here abouts. But I liked them, none the less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The high cloud texture is pretty ugly. Another thing that annoys me is that the clouds get kind of spotty when viewed close-up. Maybe make them a bit more white and smoother...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris E,Just incase it helps, hear are 2 snaps of the same high cloud thatwe all know and like so much.The second snap is taken from so high, that you can see all of the UK-South under the cloud.Seeing the hole of the cloud model like this might help you recognizethe textures in resviewer as bilonging to this cloud model.glidernut.:-wave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You must have caught quite a good thermal for that second shot!RobD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gottedammerung,No, it's in no way heresy... Everyone here knows that the other sim has many strong points. After all, it's a modern program. It would be silly to just ignore those good points.But none the less, most of us prefer the "general flight feeling" and the nice satellite textures of FU3... and its friendly interface! :-)Cristian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks folks, I'll try to answer each point :->>That horrible high cloud texture that I mentioned on another thread has to be replaced.as soon as possible.Can do that...>>I also think that there should be a bit more variety when it comes to cloud shape, since they all seem to look the same ! Is this possibleI think so, I've found a lot of different textures with the same image in them.>>I'd say the main thing is to soften the transition between cloud classes, to limit the effect in the image that you posted. I don't know if that's possible though.Probably not, but by making all the textures slight more 'alike' and using new textures in the duplicate slots I might be able to soften up the transitions.>>Some clouds look a bit too solid and "toyish" and it might be an idea soften their sides and bases....the main reason for me digging in the first place, so yes, that's a priority.>>One thing that does annoy me about the weather engine is the ridiculous speed at which weather changes. It can be raining with a completely overcast sky, and then suddenly the rain stops, the clouds lighten......and then almost disappear completely. This all happens in the space of SECONDS !To alter this behaviour would require the source code I'm affraid. But, I've already been experimenting with the weather settings for the UK region (min/max temperatures, average temperatures etc) and I have changed them somewhat. Although Seattle has similar weather to the UK, it is not identical. I've used data from the met office to get these values right.>>Can we hav a grater variety, or can we only change wat we hav ?Largely changes to what we have, but as stated above, there is evidence of duplicate textures in a number of places, so adding variety might be possible.>>The model of the cloud with the face in it... will never be seen again....>>The high cloud texture is pretty ugly.Which one JimmiG ?>>Another thing that annoys me is that the clouds get kind of spotty when viewed close-up. Maybe make them a bit more white and smoother...Yes, noted.>>Just incase it helps, hear are 2 snaps of the same high cloud thatwe all know and like so much.glidernut, thanks for that, it illustrates it very well. I have already found those cloud textures and hope to create alternative cirrus or altocumulus types for these. I will also experiment with con-trails using these clouds too....If anyone has any more suggestions, please let me know.RegardsChris E, ENGLANDhttp://www.circle-software.co.ukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..."the model of the cloud with the face in it.....will never be seen again"....Excellent news. I was never a fan of this kind of pointless feature.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris E,yes I have another good idea:Once you have decoded the unknown cloud models it would be ideal if we could edit them in future ourself! So may it be possible to create an editor so we are able to change the clouds themselfe, or ...ideal would be if you/we can tell Gideon Pertzov the structure of the unknown texture models so that he easy could import this function to a new release of his ResViewer?!Only an idea, but this makes it easy also in future to add new cloudmodels at once if we found some better ones.A minimum would be to make an small tutorial how we could replace the textures via hex-editor or something like this (only for developers then, but better than nothing).Best regards and I wish you much success!Ansgar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris, what a fantastic endeavour! I'm a weather nut myself and if you can succeed in improving FU3 skies as discussed above, then to me this will be the most important addon work for FU3.FU3 has almost perfect skies for bad weathers, meaning those dark cloud stretches that cover the sky in bad weather really look good. Where in my opinion FU3 has shortcomings is in the good weather skies, where the clouds aren't that good and are repetitive.Maybe we could ask the FSW team (of FS2002 cloud fame, Chris Willis and co) if we could use some of the many fine textures that they have so successfully implemented for FS2002; if we could somehow include the general shapes of them in FU3, then this will cut down on the work required. Just a thought.Thank you Chris for such initiative.And by the way, I got back the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro; its speed compared to the FX 5800 was starting to make a difference ;-), so thanks for your wake-up post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>To alter this behaviour would require the source code I'm affraid. But, I've already been experimenting with the weather settings for the UK region (min/max temperatures, average temperatures etc) and I have changed them somewhat. Although Seattle has similar weather to the UK, it is not identical. I've used data from the met office to get these values right.<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Replying to Noel, I don't think that "open code" will sound good to anyone owning the rights to a product. Even though they've shelved the product years ago there's nothing to be gained by giving it away. They might possibly use some of in another product and in any event, interest in an open code sim will compete with other products that they market today. Even though the success of MS Flight Simulator relies heavily on freeware and payware addons the company doesn't share much info. A more pleasing idea from EA's point of view would be to use the FU code to develop a new commercial product. If Ansgar, Agtim, the Aussies, the Brits and all the rest got on EAs payroll and developed FU IV I would certainly be ready to pay for it :-)Another way of putting this, it takes a current payware product to keep any company interested. Then, if a freeware community adds to its popularity that's an added bonus. The way it is now our interest in this old sim is really unproductive to EA, MS and all the commercial interests. Why? Because as we keep tweaking this old product we may not be too keen on buying their current and upcoming products. Thus, the thing would be to make them interested in turning this into payware rather than asking them to give it away.Hans Petter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Chris E.any news about the status of the new cloud models?It would be very interested if you had developed something which we could use already. ;-)May it be possible you show some more details, or even better make an first upload to show what is possible?Thanks in advance and kind regardsAnsgar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did we ever get anywhere with this? After my recent foray into MSFS ( :-badteeth ), I have to admit that I like the clouds. A lot. I DON'T like the haze, and the way you get that strange 'halo' of haze receding away from you as you fly. Actually, there's a lot of things I don't like - let's get back to FU3 ;-)If Chris E. or anyone knows about this cloud extraction/reinsertion business, it would certainly perk-up my interest in FU3 ;-)I accept the limitations of the palettes but it would be nice to see some more lifelike clouds - even at a distance. The haze in FU3 can be very realistic - but those silly clouds peek through at the horizon. I know you can 'haze them out' but I am sick of crap weather!! Nice clouds for a nice day!http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/155081.jpgHeavy duty "the weather's a changin" style - with a killer sunset.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/155082.jpgThe 'haze out' method. Note the 'stupid' ones still peering through behind the plane.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/155083.jpgAny ideas? :-waveRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce,Not one email...It seems that the 'other' models found in the resfile couldn't be decoded after all. I dunno. I certainly would like to do something with them though. RobD suggested that the problem was the 'new' FU3 clouds and that the binfiles and textures we see in the resfile are the older FU2 clouds. If that's true, then we really need someone with code-level knowledge to identify what format they are. Resviewer can still export a file if it doesn't what format it is.I tried exporting a couple of what look to be model files but I can't open them with any extension I can use :-rollMaybe you could have a look (in between night light work of course!), or Agtim if he spare an evening or 2? Whatever format they are in, we should be able to convert them to something useful. Structure-wise, they seem to take on the structure of an onion(!) with successively smaller versions of the cloud inside itself. I have noticed this effect when flying slowly through large clouds in the "Butcher". This may be the software itself and in fact the cloud models are just shells. Likewise, textures don't appear to be mapped, as though they are affected purely light levels according to cloud structure. This explains the ability to change sooooo many characteristics in the cfg file. I mean, with THAT much variability available, the actual cloud model file could only really contain basic shape info - FU3 must do the rest. Maybe we just need some gruesome editing* of cloud shape in the cfg file?I think. One week back in Sydney and I thought it was Saturday this morning - sheesh :-wave* Gruesome editing - Some years ago, I tried putting HUGE numbers into various sections of the cfg file. Mostly nothing happened (except a lot of CTDs), but ONE setting worked: opt_terrain_detail 999 Standard maximum setting is 103. 999 renders Mt Rainier properly from Coupville! Above 499 makes little or no difference. I usually run it at 199 for a subtle improvement without too much frame rate hit - you can see why LGS restricted the range. And its useless in UKS :-lolRegards,Jon Point

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this