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Guest andy9164

Dome of Doom

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Can anybody point in which package the London Dome is in, or even send me the Gen files (bin and mips please)I thought on a recent evening flight that City airport had been overrun by beings from outerspace but as I approached realised my dome had turned a lovely shade of luminous green. Whatever I do I cant seem to get it back to its natural colour so either I overwrote something by mistake or one of my files has got corrupted.Please either attach to a post or send to my e-mailandy@therowsons.freeserve.co.ukThanksAndy

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Did it lift off the ground, or make any Dr Who noises?The dome is on your distribution disk from Cristian - its in the UKS package but on the distribution disk is probably in a GEN folder - I forget how Cristian set this up.If you can't find it, give me a call again and I'll send you a copy.I'll have to get it from home (I'm at work).Green? Ughh. Pesky aliens.

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I don't know how they've done it, bur they've taken my Houses of Parliment with them. Is that a UFO, a green jelly or have I been drinking too much of that good old Australian Shiraz again. See pictures.Thanks Rob

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Now, lishen here, buddy!S'nuffin wrong wiv gud ol' Orstrayleean Shiraz (that's why they named it thus - it still sounds the same when you are drunk). Beshides, I find everthing goshe shorta greyish - jusht bifore I wake up the nexshed day :~PAszh to thu' green dome, I think itch wun of dose par.. pally.. parly.. (durn) palettey fings where a model takesh the seen.. sheen.. skeen.. er, sheenery and model paletsh and mixshes them up!Now, ef ya wanna good whine, Cham... Sham... Camb... Chambourcin(!) is a drop I'm growing fond of - a good Hunter Valley Cham.. (you know) ish real nishe :9 Anyone want a drop?Now, wheresh that thermal gone :-blaJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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Andy,Is Big Ben a separate model from the Houses of Parliament ? If so, then this looks suspiciously like the result of a FLED freeze, followed by lost files when ScanDisk does its stuff. This happens to me occasionally........I lost the models at San Francisco International one time, but fortunately I was watching ScanDisk at the time, and the particular model file was displayed (something like a0aa.mod), so I simply copied this over from the install directory on the hard disk (I copied the entire contents of the CD's over to temporay directories on the hard disk before installing FU3; it was the only way that I could get it to install properly).As a general piece of advice for anyone using FLED, I would recommend letting ScanDisk check the hard disk EVERY time that your PC requires rebooting after a FLED freeze.....and watch the checking process. If anything has gone amiss, you might be able to see which files have been corrupted.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Chris,Yes it is a seperate model and yes Fled has crashed many many times but it never crahses my PC so it wouldn't run Scandisk....I dont think!!One thought I had was missing pallettes. I have UK South as a seperate install on my PC. Last night I made a model in Seattle Pallette and that was textured incorrectly as well. I remapped it to San Fran Pallett and hey presto the model was correct.So, what pallette is used for UK, should I be able to see models made in both pallettes in UK South and is this why my Dome is doomed as it is the only model made in the wrong pallette. If there is a pallette missing, where do I look to find out. Oh so many questions!!.Andy

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Andy,I want to get this clear here. When FLED crashes on your PC, what exactly happens ? There are two possibilities on my system. The first involves an error message advising that FLED needs to be shut down. This dumps me back to the desktop. However, I still need to reboot the PC, because the same error message keeps appearing. This does not involve ScanDisk, since it only requires a normal shutdown and restart.The other possibility involves the mouse pointer freezing when working in FLED. Are you saying that you NEVER have this problem ? If you do, then how do you avoid a reset of your PC when you can't actually do anything on the screen ?I would be very interested to read your answers, because I still have no clear idea if ALL FLED users suffer from the same problems that I do. Comments from any other users of FLED would also be extremely welcome.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Chris,The only problem (quite frequently) I seem to suffer is that when I save or sometimes exit it doesn't and I get an error message from Windows asking me if I want to send them an error report, which I never do. This puts me back on the Desktop and then I can open Fled and work away till the next time. Sorry to say I never have complete lockouts or freezes or PC crashes with Fled. I am running XP Home on Athlon 1800+, 512 Meg Ram, GeForce Ti400, Soundblaster 5.1 live.Sorry, but I seem to be the only one around here that doesn't have any major problems with XP.Andy

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Andy,Windows XP isn't the cause of the "mouse pointer freeze" problem. I experienced this with Windows ME. Now that you have told me that you don't have this freezing problem, I am even more curious to know what every other "FLED programmer" experiences. So, get those answers flooding in guys !Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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When placing models in Fled, my mous cerser changes froman arrow to a cros-hairs cerser.This is normal, but with my Fled it will not change back agen!Even after closeing Fled, on the desk-top or in other programs,I still hav the cros-hairs cerser!The only way I can get rid of the cros-hairs cerser, or changeit back to an arrow, is by rebooting.Windows XP glidernut.

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Chris Low,There are several levals of ScanDisk, not only the levalsthat you hav a choice of when you use ScanDisk on its owne.My old win98 could not be rebooted or restarted with out it involving ScanDisk.Even if only for a fyou seconds.glidernut.

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Glidernut,I get the target cursor problem as well even when exiting FLED.You don't have to reboot. Go to the Start Menu, Settings, Control Panel, Mouse, then click on the Pointers tab and then select a scheme (I use none to get the basic pointers). Saves the reboot, more time to fly.AndyP.S. Can anybody answer my pallette question at the start of the thread.

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John,Yes, I also get that problem. However, it doesn't affect my ability to use FLED. The mouse pointer "freeze" most certainly does. Do you experience this at all ?Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Andy, regarding the palette the UK region uses the sanfran palette. Anything sanfran will look good in the UK. Further, with Robert's latest FixMip you may scoop any Seattle models you want, repalettize them to the sanfran palette and put them in the UK (or sanfran) GEN. I uploaded a whole bunch of repalettized models about a week ago. Some of them are being used in our soon-to-be-released London City package. In the meantime you may download it and use some of the apartment buildings for other UK packages. A lot of new brick houses will be uploaded with the LCA package within a few days.Chris, the only kind of FLED freeze I ever see is an error message the moment I hit "save". A box says error so and so and FLED will close down. So I close it. As I re-launch FLED (no reboot ever required with Win 2000) everything has been saved, despite the error message. I save it once more just to make sure that it's all working properly. It's pesky for sure but it hasn't ruined anything. The main challenge has been to avoid "sweeping models under the rug" as they're being repositioned. As you know, if they have been placed on one megatile and are being moved across to an adjacent one they may disappear. If I see a model going funny as I move it I pull it back, delete it and place another instance of it on the other megatile. Andy, your missing models may in fact have been "swept under the rug". Sometimes they'll show from some angles. If this is the case, grab them in FLED and pull them back to the megatile unto which they were originally placed. Thus, the only time FLED bombs out is when I try to save. In fact, I may keep adding and moving models for hours and everything's fine until the moment I hit "save". best regards,Hans Petter

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Hans,That is very strange. Am I the only person who suffers from the mouse freeze problem ? I cannot emphasise enough just how frustrating and time consuming this problem really is. I have suffered from this ever since I started using FLED over two years ago. During this time, I have experienced hundreds (and very probably THOUSANDS) of "freezes" that require a complete system reboot. Add to this the fact that all of the work that I have done since my last save has been LOST if this happens, and you may just start to appreciate what I have to put up with. Sometimes, this freeze occurs before I have even got a package OPENED :-eekJust try to imagine what it must have been like for me when I was upgrading all of those large airports in the Seattle region. Bear in mind here that the "freezes" are at their worst when deleting objects or nodes. Since I almost completely reconstructed these airports, I deleted hundreds of nodes and lines, and replaced them with new ones. When I look back at all of the work that I have done in FLED, I cannot believe how I ever got it done. The amount of freezes and crashes that I had to endure was a NIGHTMARE !Even my latest upgrade work has been inundated with freezes, although not as bad as when I reconstructed the airports.Does ANYONE else know what I am talking about here ? Surely I am not the only person who suffers from these mouse freezes ? If I am, then someone "up there" must really hate me :-)Make no mistake here. Any frustration that you may feel when FLED crashes to the desktop is INSIGNIFICANT compared to the "mouse pointer freeze" problem. You are so lucky that you don't have to put up with this. It's enough to drive someone mentally insane :-lolChris Low,ENGLAND.

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Andy, as to your original question, you need to reinstall your UKS package from the distribution disk. If you still have problems after doing this, then you will need to reinstall the whole UK-South.UK-South uses the San Fransisco palette only (as Jon explained!). The distribution disks are correctly palettised.The last picture of the dome does look a bit alien. But its also far too large. You may have also lost your terrain height data, and that suggests a fill install of UK-South is needed (unless agtim/Cristian knows a shortcut?)RobD.

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Chris,Like you I have been spending a lot of time in FLED recently (Lewis Creek/Twin Peaks) and I have suffered from my usual hiccups but, noting your question above, this is what has been happening to me recently (BTW, I regard this as 'normal' for FLED):Random lockups - occur when dragging objects across megatiles. It's been said before (I once lost an entire airport under a megatile...) but, even though the lines were right there in front of me, I still dragged a couple of things over the line and WHAM... "This program has encountered a problem and must close etc..." It doesn't occur WHEN you move the object but when you deselect it. Restarting FLED is OK if you check your task manager before starting it - quite often you'll find FLED still there. If the task manager won't close it, you have to reboot :-(Save-mode lockups - after placing a certain number of models (or even just moving them around), FLED appears to refuse to save. I normally just hit then every 5-6 operations. It DOES seem to relate to the complexity of items - I can place or move 20-30 trees (6 polygons) without problem but only one or two aircraft (~400-1000 polygons). Sometimes it DOES save, sometimes it doesn't so I just force it to (the alt+f thingy) to avoid the hassle. Again, the "This program has encountered etc..." This doesn't lock the PC at all but a soft reboot is a good idea. The advantage of saving every 5 moves is that you know straight away whether to proceed or not - a blank screen means 'stop planting trees now' ;)BTW, XP gives a slightly different error message (and tries to report it to Microsoft - I can just imagine them trying to contact LGS to report the problem - NOT) but the same happens. If, when you look in the task manager, FLED is still there, you will have to reboot.Mouse cursor problems - These are weird and relate to your video card/settings/drivers. I used to get the same problem with my previous card but it has gone away right now. In fact, both previous Nvidia cards I've had caused problems with the cursors in some way. In Windows, sometimes the cursor would cause menus to go blank as you swiped over them :-grr Suffice to say it has to do with how your PC handles video calls for DirectX and OpenGL. Cursors are normally run as an 'overlay' that is quite independent from the application. This is necessary because, for example, in FU3 you are 'in' a DirectX screen. Obviously, the PC has to find a way of displaying the cursor without interrupting Direct3D. It does this with an overlay. FLED also uses Direct3D as well. What seems to happen is that the OS (Windows) gives FLED a 'hook' for cursor control via an overlay. FLED tells Windows what sort of cursor it want (crosshairs), Windows finds the cursor resource (in FLED or it's own) and applies that. When you exit a program (or even just move the cursor over another program window), the program should pass control back to Windows. Sometimes it doesn't, other times if a program quits ungracefully (crashes), this control isn't restored. When MM2 locks-up on me and I crash out with the task manager, I'm left with the huge 640x480-style mouse cursor...We all know that FLED was work-in-progress and was never finished. It was never subjected to external peer review and the lack of documentation (and features) imply that it probably wasn't the final version intended for release. Maybe the real version was too buggy, maybe it allowed one to do things that LGS (or most likely EA) didn't like. Just another unfinished piece of software - just like Win95, Win98, ME, XP or nearly any software released after 1984 :-lol:-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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Jon,Thanks for the information, but you are still not giving me a straight answer regarding the mouse pointer "freezing". Therefore, I will ask again.DO YOU EVER EXPERIENCE THE SITUATION WHERE YOUR MOUSE POINTER FREEZES ON SCREEN, AND YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING AT ALL APART FROM REBOOTING THE PC ?Sorry for the bluntness, but everyone is assuming that I am suffering from the standard FLED crashes and the "mouse pointer changing to a crosshair" problem, and I am not getting the information that I require :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Chris,My answer is No, I dont suffer from a mouse freeze.Andy

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Chris,What 'mouse freeze' implies is a lockup whereby the CPU cannot access the mouse driver. Question is, can you do anything with the PC apart from reboot? For example, can you reboot by hitting ctrl+alt+del? If so, your CPU (nor motherboard) is not locked-up and it's probably just the mouse driver failing. This could be because of your mouse(!) or driver if they are weird. I used to use a Logitech Trackball for graphics but the driver was strange and some programs wouldn't recognise it as a mouse! This meant I had to have a normal mouse for some stuff (and installs) and only use the trackball for Autocad. This became annoying so I got rid of it (it was an old serial one anyway).If the entire PC locks up (mouse freezing, no keyboard access) then your OS (Windows) has a problem and it was probably caused by FLED. Think of it as a 'general protection fault' where the fault was so general it affected the PC's ability to display anything! I must admit that FLED has done this to me before, but usually only AFTER I had already noticed some strangeness. For example, sometimes I move the 'place models' popup and the screen remains black underneath (in fact, I move it every now and then to be sure). This is a sign that Windows and FLED aren't getting along. If you save and exit at this point, you'll be OK usually. Continuing past this point CAN result in a locked screen (mine usually goes black and the keyboard locks out so it's reset button time - with the corresponding Scandisk restart).Oh! One more thing. FLED doesn't like external drives too much and you should avoid 'delayed writes' as well. I have found that, with delayed writes enabled, if you attempt to save again (before the last save command is actually executed - which could be 30 seconds or 2 minutes) it's lockup city!My simple rules for FLED:* Let it start before loading packages. * When working on a new area, make bookmarks then save, close and reopen. It appears that 'merely' saving does not save the bookmarks properly. If you save but later get a lockup, your bookmarks can disappear.* When moving objects adjacent to, or on top of megatile edges, just delete them and place anew.* Never drag an object across megatile edges. Well, try not to.* When placing individual objects (planes, houses, fences etc), save after each placement.* When placing bulk items (trees, tyres etc), save after every 4-5 placements.* If FLED goes strange FOR ANY REASON - slow response, missing models, blank megatiles etc - save, close and restart FLED.* If FLED locks up or crashes upon saving, close it straight away. * If restarting after a lockup (without rebooting), always check your task manager (ctrl+alt+del) that FLED isn't still there in the list. If it is, RESTART your PC. DON'T use SHUTDOWN. In Win98 and ME, the PC will just lockup and you'll be hitting the reset button :-( * Every 30 minutes or so, save and exit FLED, then restart. This is as much for Window's peace of mind as FLED's. It simply 'forces' your saved work to be saved and any tempfiles cleared from memory.BTW, if FLED ever locks up when you're just looking at it, your PC memory is cactus! Use 'memtest.exe' to find out (search the web or I can send it to you). Don't rely on Window's memory testing - it just verifies that the memory size is correct as reported - you could have 40% crook memory and it wouldn't know...:-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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I think I've had all of the different types of behaviour - from mouse freezes to lockups. And its not consistent. So I assume that when FLED can't handle something, it is accidentally overwriting protected memory (like writing to an array element one greater than the nominated size), and either overwriting itself or something else its not supposed to.At present I have a sort of in-between response - I get the error message, and then can safely exit to desktop. But if I start FU3 or FLED again, the whole computer instantly and totally locks - dead mouse, CTRL-ALT-DEL no effect - nothing at all. Then its time to reboot. So I avoid the problem by rebooting straighway after an error message anyway, avoiding the dreaded blue screen of death without problems (You know the blue screen of death? Where Microsoft informs you that you have not shut down your computer correctly, and it would be better if next time you used the START button to stop. Duhh!). But best is to avoid allowing FLED to have any errors - observing the basic rules:THE SEVEN UNBREAKABLE GOLDEN RULES OF FLED1) save after every few object moves2) save immediately after deleting any object3) save airport work twice as often4) never change a model with BSP that has been used without deleting all occurrences of it first from all other packages5) make backup copies of packages off-computer and in other directories FREQUENTLY.6) if anything strange happens (like a model doesn't select correctly), exit, delete package, reinstall from backup, redo work.7) Cross fingers, toes, and teeth at all times whilst working, but never let object paths cross over themselves.Objects disappearing beneath scenery when you slide them is not a problem since glidernut explained how to handle them - one of the many great tips he has published here over the years.Anyway, I like the green dome of doom better. AvagoodweegendRobD.

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Robert,If only there WAS a fail safe way of using FLED. However, this is impossible on my PC, since mouse freezes and crashes to desktop are not preceded by anything in the way of a warning. They simply happen !Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Jon,I have had two years of experience using FLED, so I am well aware of the "golden rules" of FLED use. I have never experienced a lockup just looking at FLED, so presumably my memory is intact... :-)The "mouse freeze" is an incompatibility between my PC and FLED. It has nothing to do with the mouse (a Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical), since I have no problems with any other piece of software.I have just added yet more work to my upgrades list, so it still occupies nearly two pages of a Microsoft Word document :-eek I hope that Cristian gets back from holiday soon, so that I can get on with the two airfields that need to be flattened.......Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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