Hello,I flew the DVR 5F SID from EGLL yesterday when I got into trouble with altitude restrictions: The SID is relatively long (80 nm) and requires the pilot to fly at or below 6000 ft QNH until about 44 nm after takeoff from runway 27R.Pretty much 5 nm after takeoff I was immediately cleared to FL110 although the SID demanded had the 5000 ft and 6000 ft QNH altitude restrictions, which are also programmed into my FMC.Flying with the FMC, I kept the altitude to 6000 ft and Radar contact started complaining very badly, saying that I busted my altitude restriction.I know that ATC can generally clear you above standard altitude restrictions as required, however RC does this all the time without regard for the SID.Is there a way to get RC to give different/more realistic altitude restrictions?Regards,Wolfgang

did you read the manual about departure procedures? specifically page 109 may be of some helpjd

>Hello,>>I flew the DVR 5F SID from EGLL yesterday when I got into>trouble with altitude restrictions: The SID is relatively long>(80 nm) and requires the pilot to fly at or below 6000 ft QNH>until about 44 nm after takeoff from runway 27RHi Wolfgang,You're partially correct. Yes, you shouldn't climb above the altitude restriction but can do so when directed by ATC. Here's the relevant section from the official EGLL SID charts. Item 5 applies...http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/175071.jpgSo RC is quite correct to clear you higher. It would be inconceivable that ATC would keep you at 6000ft for 80 miles.Cheers,

Thanks for the responses, JD and Ray.I think I remembered the manual the wrong way. I always thought that departure procedures with altitude restrictions referred to the SIDs having altitude restrictions rather than the fact that RC would enforce altitude restrictions, i.e. the opposite of what it is supposed to mean.Ray, since you live in the UK, do you think point 5 in the SID is mentioned in case of very very bad traffic/weather situations and/or communication failure? Are you implying that, in reality, in most cases ATC will have cleared air traffic to higher altitudes at a much earlier stage?Separate question regarding SIDs and STARs in real life: I have not flown in Europe in real life that much in the last 10 years but I fly almost every other week here on commercial airlines in Asia and I have noticed that pilots almost never fly STARs and it seems that they are get radar-vectored almost all the time. Also, sometimes SIDs are simplified whereby certain waypoints are skipped and the pilot must have got a DCT clearance or radar vectors to the transition point. Any thoughts on whether SIDs/STARs are really used or are they mainly used in case of communication failure?Regards,Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,<I'm no ATC controller so I'd only be guessing about that altitude restriction. I would think it's because once above the initial altitude they would be passed over to another controller and ATC would need to control when that happens.I sometimes listen in to ATC at Manchester and aircraft are frequently cleared higher before the end of the SID so it probably happens at all major airports.<Regarding STARs... I imagine that depending on how busy the arrival traffic is it would be quite normal to vector traffic accordingly. Likewise with departures. Watching the ITVV Concorde DVD (recorded in the mid 90s) the pilot remarked he expected to be given headings to fly which varied from the SID. So this is nothing new. Controllers are there to keep aircraft safe and if that means changing their flight paths then that is what will happen.SIDs and STARs will be around for the forseeable future as they guarantee aircraft depart and arrive airports in an orderly fashion. Once the computers take over expect chaos! :-)Cheers,