nighthawk65

I will try again this weekend and let you know what happens or how it goes... Thank-you

OK so I have tried multiple attempts and I also found the following forum post: I think my issue may be very similar if not the same in nature. I have tried to go exactly with the SOP, however, after the FO completes his portion and I try to run the Shutdown CL, it continually says standby. Lights and Doors is executed when approaching the gate, F/D is turned off, and APU/GPU Power Source is selected. The F/O completes his procedure and I complete the Captain's procedure, but the shutdown C/L continues to say standby. Even if I skip and hit the next item it will finish, but I am unable to start the Pre-Flight Timer unless I select the aircraft all over again (not advisable via PMDG) or if I restart a whole new session. I agree that there are no bugs, I am just not sure where I am going wrong. I do have a Saitek Joystick and Throttle quadrant will my Whart-Hog Stick and Throttle. I have checked to ensure that the mixture and propeller are off, but I nothing I have tried yet works... What is funny to me, is that I can recall it used to work without issue and I am not sure when, but somewhere along the line it stopped working. The only reason I know it doesn't now, is due to trying to run multiple legs. Any help would be very appreciated. Please let me know if you have any questions, thanks and have a nice day! V/R Kris

OK, so I really hope that I am not asking a dumb question here. But with the release of the Dash 8 plus the updates done to the 400, you have to simulate a little more reference ACARS and the CDU on the radio panel. However, in order to use this CDU, the FO screens must be enabled via the performance tab on the PMDG page of the CDU. Is there a way to disable the FO screens and CDU but still have access to the lower CDU for ACARS purposes?? I might be crazy be I have the FO disabled on the NGX but at least the CDU remains operational (most of the time)... Curious for any thought or observations regarding this matter. V/R Kris Plummer

OK will do, thank-you

Hello, So now with a new modern PC and P3D V4, I can finally run multiple legs. However, with the PMDG 737 and FS2Cew, it appears to be having issues. Once at-the gate and with both engines shut-down, the Shutdown checklist won't engage. Additionally, if I skip past and try to prep for another flight the Pre-Flight Events are not-able to be selected. I did try to uninstall and reinstall FS2Crew, but that had-no affect. I am going to try another flight and wait for several minutes after the shutdown to see if that has any effect. Just curious if I am missing something or if there might be a possible issue and/or conflict somewhere... V/R Kris

Did you ever resolve this issue, as I appear to have something similar?? V/R Kris

Hello, I have recently been perfecting my system. Now that I can let it run without a FRL and my CPU0 doesn't constantly stay at 100% utilization I wanted to give my VR another try. I have Oculus and have used it before without issue. However now while I can let it run in Stereo Mode without issue, if I try and run it on Single-Pass mode, the screen stays black. You can, however, see the glideslope approach lights and thunder when there is some, but other than that the screen stays black. If go back to Stereo Mode it back to normal again. I have the most current drivers for both Oculus and Nvidia installed, curious to see if anybody has any thoughts on the matter?? V/R Kris

So I did alot of testing over the weekend, to include removing all Creative Hardware and Software, however, that did not prove to do anything towards resolving the issue. V/R Kris

***UPDATE*** OK, so when I came home last night I started the first of many troubleshooting measures... First I uninstalled NVIDIA Drivers with a fresh install and without HD Audio; then I disabled the MB Realtek Audio Drivers and disabled via the BIOS the onboard audio; then I disabled the monitor audio, and finally disconnected the Creative Katana Sound Bar via USB, however, I left the Creative AE-5 Card installed and the Katana is connected via Optical Connection. Ran windows and the bulk of the latency bars stayed in the green but just barely... I then started P3D with supporting programs and let it run overnight. When I came downstairs all latency bars were in the red and below is the attached report. Tonight I will remove the Audio Card and uninstall all Creative Software and see what happens.... _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CONCLUSION _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 11:49:29 (h:mm:ss) on all processors. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ SYSTEM INFORMATION _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Computer name: DESKTOP-4VTHM5O OS version: Windows 10 , 10.0, build: 17134 (x64) Hardware: Z370 AORUS Gaming 7, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz Logical processors: 6 Processor groups: 1 RAM: 32707 MB total _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU SPEED _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Reported CPU speed: 3696 MHz Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results. WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event. Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 8160.692641 Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 2.759325 Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 8156.536797 Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 1.129516 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED ISRs _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal. Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 232.008658 Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.145076 Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.157022 ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 46991594 ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED DPCs _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution. Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 5403.896104 Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.916015 Driver with highest DPC total execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation Total time spent in DPCs (%) 1.087229 DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 183466100 DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0 DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 507917 DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 507919 DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 465335 DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution. NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit. Process with highest pagefault count: officeclicktorun.exe Total number of hard pagefaults 147257 Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 39825 Number of processes hit: 124 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ PER CPU DATA _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 4197.2990 CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 232.008658 CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 88.987209 CPU 0 ISR count: 19452822 CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 5403.896104 CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 2450.892997 CPU 0 DPC count: 127894244 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1303.328783 CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 190.255952 CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 304.931565 CPU 1 ISR count: 26230599 CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 3511.588745 CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 308.123026 CPU 1 DPC count: 51380652 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 195.084883 CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 90.069264 CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 7.005220 CPU 2 ISR count: 1232099 CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 802.016234 CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 5.291852 CPU 2 DPC count: 2138733 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 185.000259 CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 29.852814 CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.121903 CPU 3 ISR count: 69396 CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 371.497294 CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 4.010928 CPU 3 DPC count: 1209533 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 187.080697 CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 7.306277 CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 0.016775 CPU 4 ISR count: 6672 CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 443.860931 CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 3.501144 CPU 4 DPC count: 996051 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 187.972817 CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 3.303030 CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 0.000016 CPU 5 ISR count: 6 CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 364.889069 CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 5.151991 CPU 5 DPC count: 1328072 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I will give that a try but I have been reading and researching a lot in multiple forums. First I am going to try and disable the onboard MB audio and uninstall NVIDIA for a clean install of NVIDIA but without the HD Audio, lastly disable the Killer LAN. Multiple forums have indicated that all of those have cause issues directly related to mines. However, if all of those are of not working then I will move to Creative. I can live without the Audio Card, however I really would like to keep the Katana Soundbar as I got rid of my old 5.1 speaker setup... V/R Kris

I am going to try and do some testing over the next few days first with disabling the hardware/driver for both sound and network. If that doesn't work then I will try and either remove hardware or move it to another slot. A new MB would not be ideal here as the Custom Water Cooling loop runs from a radiator into the reservoir then to the CPU Monoblock, then to the next radiator then the GPU and finally back to the original radiator. So that would require a complete re-work of the loop plus a new mono-block for a new MB and a complete system reinstall... So that is not an option for right now. Side-note, I let my system run this morning for a while with just the default applications and Chrome running. The Latency monitor showed normal usage with minor spikes, I think the issues occurs when running P3D. Some software doesn't like either the driver's and/or hardware as the software runs, more to follow...

So remove all creative drivers, or should I reinstall the most current versions... It would be a shame to have two items that work extremely well outside of the sim and not be able to utilize them going forward either with the sim or for other video and sound applications... V/R Kris

Yes it is... However it was achieved through testing, monitoring etc. over the course of months... I started in May and finally achieved a stable OC in late August. It is a cherry chip via Silicon Lottery, and achieved without HT enabled. It is supported via a Water Cooling System with two radiators and a custom built loop. Temps generally range in the 60's and 70's even under full load. It has withstood hours of Intel Burn Test and Prime 95 to ensure stability without any errors... I did test with default settings and saw severe stuttering and sound crackling etc. however, I did not test with default settings while monitoring for latency, I can give that a try... The Creative SBX AE-5 is the sound card. However, I will try and see what happens if I disable it and if I completely remove it, as I generally were a headset while in the sim. It would suck to have to do that every time I want to run P3D as it is amazing for Regular Video, Music etc.. V/R Kris

OK, let me first start with I was not sure which forum this should go to, so I thought I would start here, and if any of the moderator's feel it should be somewhere else, then please by all means. Brief Software/System specs: Software: Windows 10 64bit and P3D v4, with multiple addons (I don't think that matters as I have testing with 3rd party and default). Hardware: 8700k (OC 5.2Ghz with no HT enabled); Aorus 1080TI; 32GB of G.Skill Trident DD4 3200 CL14; Audi Creative SBX AE-5, MB GB Aorus Z370 Gaming 7 (If you need any more please ask and I will share.) OK, so long story short It was bugging me that I could not get more out of my hardware even with low conservative settings. I completed a flight from KBOS (FT) to KSFO (FB) with the PMDG 747. All went well but I had to keep my FRL to 25FPS. It went fine and no problems... So I decided to leave it running at the gate overnight to see what happens. The next morning I found it still running, however, both P3D and Windows had crawled to a halt. I went into the Task Manager to see what was going on, and the bulk of my resources had been dried up. There were two items running that seemed to be taking the bulk of my resources, they were; Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation / audiodg.exe and Windows System Interrupts. So I decided to do a little research and apparently, these items can slow and hog your system resources. First I ran a complete system scan for Viruses and Malware; however for the audio, as it is still in the Windows/System32 it has not been corrupted and no viruses or malware were found. The next step was to check and update drivers. Next was to ensure in the sound settings that sound enhancements was disabled which they all were that had them, that being my monitor as both my speakers and headphones settings did not have that option. That was completed in addition to disabling the graphics from the CPU via the BIOS and ensuring that CPU throttling was disabled in the Control Panel and BIOS. All was done. So I restarted my system after a complete check of the BIOS, all Windows updates and driver checks. I did another flight this time from KSFO to KIAD (FB) with the PMDG 747. I didn't turn on the FRL via the Nvidia CP but for once I didn't need to. For the first time, I could let the frames run on unlimited and my Core 0 never reached 100% utilization, prior to that flight that was not feasible, as when I would let go unlimited Core 0 would stay at 100% utilization, but would slowly degrade over time. For the first time ever, I was able to range in FPS from mid 30's to 120 (in flight wing view), even going from day to night with dynamic lighting and AS Next (for weather) and UTlive at 60%. My mind was blown away, to say the least, I took off with over 40FPS and landed in the mid 30's, which I was not able to accomplish before now. Let say that the culprit is either in Audio or Network, not to sure which needs to be disabled, but I went ahead and tried a few that I don't use. Audio: Microphone (logitech G933 Gaming Wireless headset); Microphone (Sound Blaster Katana); Realtek Digital Output (Disabled); ROG PG27V NVIDIA HD Audio (Disabled); SPDIF-Out SB AE-5 (Disabled); Speakers ( logitech G933 Gaming Wireless headset); Speakers (SBX AE-5); Speakers (Sound Blaster Katana); Speakers (Virtual Desktop Disabled); What U Hear SB AX-5; What U Hear SB Katana Network: Bluetooth Device (Personal are Network); Bluetooth Deice (RFCOMM Protocol TDI); Intel Dual Band Wireless AC 8260 (with Wake on Magic Packet Disabled); Intel Ethernet Connection (with Wake on Magic Packet Disabled); Killer E25400 GB Ethernet Controller (with Wake on Magic Packet Disabled); WAN Miniport (IKEv2) (IP) (IPv6) (L2TP) (Network Mon) (PPPOE) (PPTP) (SSTP) USB Root Hub (Disabled) no adverse effects on any USB periphals Now comes the bad news, I had in the background running DPC Latency Checker and LatencyMon (Home Edition), prior to loading any P3D software or supporting programs. The one thing that I noticed is that both of these continue to get progressivly worse and will eventually make the system unusable. Now I can continue to shut-down and restart everything, but that would eliminate the freedom of P3D 64 bit multiple legs/flights. I am not saying multiple days, just multiple flights in one day. From the beginning, the DPC stayed between a mix if Green/Yellow bars, however now it's mostly red with a little yellow with a current reading of 2500us and this message: Some device drivers on this machine behave bad and will probably cause drop-outs in real-time audio and/or video steams. To isolate the misbehaving driver use Device Manager and disable-re-enable various devices, one at a time. Try network and W-LAN adapters, modems, internal sound devices, USB host controllers, etc. For LatencyMon the following is what came from monitoring my system: The two that stood out the most was the directx graphics kernel and kernel mode driver framework runtime... Prior to the report, I am open to any suggestions or ideas as to how to fix this annoying issue. Any help would be much appreciated... V/R Kris _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CONCLUSION _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates. LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 5:38:20 (h:mm:ss) on all processors. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ SYSTEM INFORMATION _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Computer name: DESKTOP-4VTHM5O OS version: Windows 10 , 10.0, build: 17134 (x64) Hardware: Z370 AORUS Gaming 7, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz Logical processors: 6 Processor groups: 1 RAM: 32707 MB total _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU SPEED _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Reported CPU speed: 3696 MHz Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results. WARNING: the CPU speed that was measured is only a fraction of the CPU speed reported. Your CPUs may be throttled back due to variable speed settings and thermal issues. It is suggested that you run a utility which reports your actual CPU frequency and temperature. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event. Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 4639.595984 Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 2.884602 Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 4636.548358 Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.951642 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED ISRs _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal. Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 260.068723 Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.271809 Driver with highest ISR total time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.350122 ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 38491540 ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 1 ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED DPCs _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution. Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 5628.148268 Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0.537735 Driver with highest DPC total execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0.861610 DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 90458100 DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0 DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 362675 DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 281203 DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 3026 DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution. NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit. Process with highest pagefault count: prepar3d.exe Total number of hard pagefaults 40577 Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 9714 Number of processes hit: 93 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ PER CPU DATA _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1617.765384 CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 260.068723 CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 157.320397 CPU 0 ISR count: 17634073 CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 5628.148268 CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 669.966032 CPU 0 DPC count: 63015784 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 1269.974666 CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 185.364719 CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 266.033388 CPU 1 ISR count: 19764983 CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 3964.771645 CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 347.406191 CPU 1 DPC count: 21867341 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 184.241487 CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 102.898810 CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 3.042070 CPU 2 ISR count: 1067638 CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 2155.683442 CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 15.709454 CPU 2 DPC count: 1999937 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 168.644820 CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 19.494589 CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0.070248 CPU 3 ISR count: 24834 CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 941.639610 CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 5.225525 CPU 3 DPC count: 1429080 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 4 Interrupt cycle time (s): 173.014796 CPU 4 ISR highest execution time (µs): 5.134740 CPU 4 ISR total execution time (s): 0.000042 CPU 4 ISR count: 13 CPU 4 DPC highest execution time (µs): 1533.355519 CPU 4 DPC total execution time (s): 4.998163 CPU 4 DPC count: 1333075 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CPU 5 Interrupt cycle time (s): 168.122633 CPU 5 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0.0 CPU 5 ISR total execution time (s): 0.0 CPU 5 ISR count: 0 CPU 5 DPC highest execution time (µs): 939.705628 CPU 5 DPC total execution time (s): 6.178199 CPU 5 DPC count: 1459809 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have built a new machine and have done a series of testing with default and with 3rd party add-ons... Additional testing has been done with multiple hardware scenarios ranging from HT enables disables, FPS limit or unlimited etc. The one thing that I found consistently, was when I limit my P3D I can keep stable frames and smoothness... Without the frames are high for a while, but slowly dwindle from 40's-60's down to single digits, no matter what scenario I do... I have flyinside, and have yet to do testing with, but I tried a 4+hr flight that I have done many times with no issue with P3D 4.3 native VR. FPS started in +30-45 and by the end was in single digits. Is there a way to limit the FPS when in VR mode, without using the native limiter. I have found best to use the NI limiter, as it has had better results???? V/R Kris