samisahusky

(copied from my post in the UTLive support Forum, but hoping I'll get more suggestions and a fix from here) OK, so I've had a ton of issues with UTLive since I updated P3D to 4.4 (not blaming P3D or UTL, but something happened when I upgraded). Here's the short version of whats been going on, then I'll get to my findings as for where I am in testing right now and HOPEFULLY someone will know whats happening so I can get this issue resolved. Prior to updating P3D from 4.3 to 4.4, I had 0 issues with UTLive and all my assignments were showing up perfectly. Short version: Upgraded P3D from 4.3 to 4.4 and UTLive from 1.1 to 1.2. At that time I had a few issues which caused me to have to do a full uninstall and reinstall of P3D and ALL addons. After reinstalling UTLive, I changed the repaints.xml to the backup I made just before updating UTLive to 1.2 (I have over 1000 repaints assigned) but then hardly any traffic would appear (only a very small amount of the default Daedalus would show). Deleting my repaints.xml and allowing UTLive to make a new default one would show the airports full of traffic again. I thought the issue was my backup of the repaints so using the default, I spent hours reassigning over 500 aircraft and I went to do a flight and the airports were empty again. What I've found out: I thought maybe the issue was that there was a bad assignment like I had not made the % in the assignment equal to 100% in one of the aircraft so I checked them all and they were all correct. I then thought maybe it was an aircraft that was no longer compatible somehow that was causing the entire repaints.xml to become corrupt. So, I deleted the repaints.xml and yet again allowed UTL to make a new one. I started P3D and set my location to OMDB and the airport was full again and I made sure to check the Emirates A380 was showing and it was as the UTLive repaint and model. I closed P3D and opened UTLive program and this time, I selected Emirates Airlines, selected the A380, and reassigned ONLY that aircraft to my A380 (TFS model updated for P3D 4) and saved. I restarted P3D and set to start at OMDB and launched. To my surprise, the airport still looked pretty full, but then I noticed there was not 1 single Emirates A380. So it seems that every aircraft I assign a paint to does not show up in the simulator. This leads me to believe this may be a settings issue or a path issue, so if someone can point me in the right direction? Here are some screenshots of my current settings and paths: http://prntscr.com/mvf3l7 - UTL Dashboard http://prntscr.com/mvf3v5 - UTL Simulation tab settings http://prntscr.com/mvf41r - UTL Configuration/Aircraft http://prntscr.com/mvf483 - UTL Configuration/Flt Sim http://prntscr.com/mvf4fc - UTL Configuration/Traffic http://prntscr.com/mvf4l1 - UTL Configuration/Installs http://prntscr.com/mvfbqn - AI Aircraft Editor with Emirates A380 selected and showing at the bottom model is MDLX P3D SimObjects.CFG info - File location path: C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 Full SimObjects.CFG with my AI Aircraft folder highlighted at the bottom (folder where all AI aircraft I have except TrafficGlobal aircraft reside): [Entry.0] Title=Default Airplanes Path=SimObjects\Airplanes Required=True Active=True [Entry.1] Title=Default Avatars Path=SimObjects\Avatars Required=True Active=True [Entry.2] Title=Default Rotorcraft Path=SimObjects\Rotorcraft Required=True Active=True [Entry.3] Title=Default Ground Vehicles Path=SimObjects\GroundVehicles Required=True Active=True [Entry.4] Title=Default Boats Path=SimObjects\Boats Required=True Active=True [Entry.5] Title=Default Animals Path=SimObjects\Animals Required=True Active=True [Entry.6] Title=Default Misc Path=SimObjects\Misc Required=True Active=True [Entry.7] Title=Default Submersible Path=SimObjects\Submersible Required=True Active=True [Entry.8] Title=Default Weapons Path=SimObjects\Weapons Required=True Active=True [Entry.9] Title=Default Countermeasures Path=SimObjects\Countermeasures Required=True Active=True [Entry.10] Title=utLive Aircraft Path=C:\USERS\STEVEN\DESKTOP\P3D ALL\UT LIVE\utLive Aircraft Required=True Active=True [Entry.11]Title=AI Aircraft Path=C:\Users\Steven\Desktop\P3D All\Traffic Global\TrafficGlobal\TrafficGlobalFleet Required=True Active=True Title=TrafficGlobalFleet [Entry.12] Title=Addon AI Aircraft Path=SimObjects\AIAircraft Required=True Active=True Please let me know if there is any other setting or CFG that I should check. Thanks.

Blame my phone for autocorrect ... I do most of my forum posting on breaks at work from my phone so I can spend time at home on the sim Regardless, I was able to get P3D4.4 working without issues after the system clean, uninstall and reinstall as I posted above. It corrupted my backup repaints.xml for UTLive so I am now having to reassign everything but I keep things organized so that won't be too hard, just time consuming. At least I can still fly now tho

It may have had to do with the previous version of 4.3 not having been uninstalled as it should have been from my system. I did follow the instructions from Poppy for updating, but still anything could have gone wrong. A huge majority of the registry errors were Microsoft looking for documents I don’t have on the C drive anymore and only about 5 or 6 were anything related to P3D or its addons. Given that I did have a test flight work properly while using AS4 and UTLive but not my VA ACARS, and then failing when I was using ACARS, I would think the culprit was a bad update install of the ACARS system utlive is working properly on version 1.1 after an uninstall, reg check, computer restart and reinstall of UTLive. Im skeptical to try to install 1.2 because 1) it doesn’t really update anything but the schedules and I’m pretty happy with the current schedules as far as traffic density goes and 2) as I said before, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it ... and 1.1 isn’t broken. What concerns me tho is that I was able to complete the 14 hour flight with UTLive running but it hadn’t injected traffic. It is properly injecting now, but does anyone know if P3D4.4 did any changes that would have made an AI Aircraft not compatible anymore? They all worked without issues with 4.3 and I’ve been extremely diligent about only getting the correct AI model types for P3D. I can’t tule out that 1 model type was causing the issues either because I didn’t have any traffic on the flight.

For anyone who may be interested, After 6 attempts I was finally able to make the KJFK-OREK flight without P3D CTD or App Hang. After updating to 4.4 is when the CTD issue would start. I reverted back to 4.3 and tested and everything seemed to be working, so I set up the flight plan again and tried the flight, but once again somewhere over Europe, P3D would then start doing an App Hang rather than a CTD. I did a full uninstall of P3D and all addons and then reinstalled going directly to 4.4 (I never reinstalled 4.3). I tested again and still I would get App Hang over Europe (the errors would only happen between 5-7 hours into the flight somewhere randomly over Europe after flying 3,000 miles without an issue). I was just about to give up when Avast Cleaner (AV disabled still from reinstall) popped up and it notified me of just over 20,000 issues with registry entries. I used Avast Cleaner (CCLeaner can do the same) to repair those bad links and I also followed the advice from a post here in the CTD forum about disabling the CMeteoXml.dll in the P3D install folder and also disabling BOTH dll.xml files (the one in C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 and the one located at C:\Users\yourname\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4). I restarted the computer after all 3 of those were done (all reg entries fixed, BOTH dll.xml files disabled and CMeteoXml.dll disabled). Loaded up the flight plan again, and gave it the 6th attempt and this time there was no CTD and no app hang. I cannot confirm which of those 3 things seems to have fixed the issue, but I do recall AS4 Live Weather giving a few spots of red while over the Atlantic on almost all of the attempts. The CMeteoXml.dll file does something with weather for Carenado but it is not required to fly so disabling it would have no negative impact on the setup. Per previous posts in the CTD forum, that file has been known to cause CTD when exiting bad weather if you are also using Active Sky, so that could have been it. It could have been that the 2 dll.xml files were both calling for the CMeteoXml.dll file to be used when it didn't need to be used thereby causing a conflict between Active Sky and CMeteoXml.dll Carenado weather, or it could have been a different bad address in one or both of the dll.xml files. Or, it could have been one or more of those 20,000 reg entries that were incorrectly mapped was causing the conflict and it only came up when trying to update P3D from 4.3 to 4.4. Who knows. But my advice for anyone who is getting weird or random CTD or App Hang, do these things in this order: 1) disable CMeteoXml.dll by changing it to CMeteoXml.dll.off 2) disable BOTH dll.xml files at the addresses above to dll.xml.off (P3D will rebuild them when you restart P3D), 3) use some type of trusted cleaning software and check your registry entires and allow the cleaner to fix any errors it finds, and then rerun the reg check on the cleaner and fix errors until you get 0 errors and finally 4) restart your computer. After running those steps, I was able to do a 13 hour flight with no issues from P3D, but I did notice that UTLive isn't working properly now. Most likely because of a bad install or missing files. I'll uninstall UTLive then check registry errors, restart comp, reinstall, restart comp again and see if that fixes it.

This thread is not about confusion of P3D version. Please go back and read your replies. Another member also felt that there is no confusion about what version was installed, so I’m not alone in how the replies were written. Jim, you made a number of replies stating that the error was showing version 4.3 installed, which then confused everyone else who may have been able to help resolve the issue but then felt it was resolved because you stated the incorrect version was installed, when I had pointed out every time that the error showed 4.4 installed into a custom folder. Instead of pointing out where in ther error it stated version 4.3 as I requested, you dismissed my issue altogether as if I refused to acknowledge that you were right, despite having nothing showing version 4.3 in the error. Steve, when you brought up folder placement, it wasn’t as a suggestion, at least that’s not how it was written. I’m simply pointing out that it should be clear that if a revert solved the issue then the issue is with the update, and adding “from a professional” only makes it seem you are above the rest of us and therefore your solution must be the correct one. Professional or not, this post isn’t about folder placement either and making other feel inferior is not professional at all. I’ve found posts from over 2 years ago about you discussing folder placement and more than half of the users who replied stated they did not have P3D in the default Programs File folder due to read/write permissions and have had no issues. I’ve had that folder as full permissions since I got Windows 7 back in FSX days but I agree with the majority of users who have not had any issues with the sim, that it is easier to have it in a custom folder be it for shorter paths or for better organization. A good number of computers don’t come with a large built in hard drive, so that’s why we buy a larger SSD drive to install the sim into. If nothing was ever made to be installed into those drives they wouldn’t have the ability to. P3D and all of the addons I have for it take up a huge amount of space. Having everything in 1 custom folder makes it easier to back up and make it easier to find update managers and makes it easier to reinstall if needed. I will again say I’ve seen far more issues come out of having it installed into the default than I have seen with having it installed into a custom folder. I will again state for the final time, there is no and should be no confusion about what version is installed. Please read the entire error and OP clearly.

I've never known a professional who wanted so badly to throw that out there whenever and wherever he/she/it/they/them could ... 🤨

There is no confusion about the version. It has been 100% crystal clear since post #1: These show the faulting module and the program that runs that module and their installed version numbers: Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.4.16.27077, time stamp: 0x5bfdbb35 Faulting module name: terrain.dll, version: 4.4.16.27077, time stamp: 0x5bfdbaa6 This shows a folder path that the above are installed into and have nothing to do with installed version number that is listed above. Folders can be named anything!!!! Faulting application path: C:\Users\Steven\Desktop\P3Dv43\P3Dv43 MAIN INSTALL\Prepar3D.exe Faulting module path: C:\Users\Steven\Desktop\P3Dv43\P3Dv43 MAIN INSTALL\terrain.dll So again, no confusion anywhere except those who are not reading the entire issue, or those who don't understand how to read the error. No confusion. None. If you still think there is some confusion about what version was giving the errors and what's been done and proven working, then please go back to post #1 and try again.

I've had more and a couple of professional developers have a look into my system and folder placements and none of them have had any issues with my placement (Umberto from GSX/FSDT being one of them who I will regard as a true professional developer). I again thank you for your concern about my folders, but this forum and topic is not about folder placements, but it is about CTD, which again, was verified as something with P3D4.4 itself since everything else works fine after reverting back to 4.3 ... and I assure you, if it was really an issue of folder placement, then 90% of the flight sim community wouldn't have the sim installed on a separate drive all together, and another 9% wouldn't have it installed into a folder on the desktop. There are reasons behind those choices and Google will be happy to explain them to you.

What does any of that have to do with 4.4 causing Terrain.DLL to CTD when it does not in 4.3 with all the same updated add-ons running in the same folder they have been in? I don't even feel you are on topic at this point. There is no way an updated add-on failed because of folder placement because I didn't revert back any of the updates for those add-ons, I only reverted the main P3D sim from 4.4 back to 4.3 and all the add-ons still work prefect. All add-ons retained their updated status for 4.4 compliance, despite P3D being reverted back to 4.3 now. So your theory is not correct, and that should be pretty obvious to a "professional"

I run Windows 7 and I learned the hard way many years ago, you never install anything in Windows 7 directly to the default program files folders. There are major admin rights issues that come up where files don't get installed or are blocked by windows from running properly. To work around this, it's been suggested, but all major developers, to install into a folder on the desktop and it's no problems at all. And it helps keep everything organized, makes searching for duplicate airport bgl files a lot easier also. Thanks for the suggestion, but I can only say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and installing P3D any version, FSX, FS9, or any other major install into a folder made on the desktop for Windows 7 "ain't broke" and also recommended by Microsoft and LM

After only reverting back to P3D4.3, set up a test flight from Galway Ireland to Bucharest Romaina and then back to Galway with a hold over Galway, PMDG 747-44 (same aircraft as when the CTD would happen) at FL350, the aircraft completed both crossings and is currently holding over Galway. No CTD after revert back to P3D4.3. From Windows Control Panel, I uninstalled 4.4 Client, 4.4 Scenery, 4.4 Content, and 4.4 EXE and then reinstalled 4.3 from the download I ket a backup of when I upgraded to 4.3. Nothing else was changed or modified. So that leads me to believe the Terrain.dll CTD is in fact an error in the 4.4 installer. The question now is: what caused it? 1) bad download of the installer that had a corrupted file? 2) Add-on that was updated for 4.4 but is not really compatible despite no one else having an issue with that add-on in 4.4? 4.4 is not compatible with Windows 7? I'm going to try to redownload 4.4 and reinstall in a few days to see if it was a bad download. But the same aircraft, ATC add-on, ActiveSky all running in 4.3 and don't cause a crash, and all these addons were updated to be 4.4 compliant, so I don't think it was an addon

Both modules were showing as 4.4 ... the only mention of 4.3 was in the folder names I created when I installed 4.3 but again I could have named these folders anything. The fact that I named the folder v43 is irrelevant to how P3D would update itself as long as that same folder was selected, which it was, when the update was ran. I could have named the folder “FS1989/FS1989 MAIN INSTALL” and I could still install P3Dv4.4 into that folder. I don’t see anywhere in the error or on the OP where version 4.3 is stated. If I’m not seeing it, please highlight it for me from a quote in the OP so I can figure out why the update didn’t apply as it should have.

Jim, the OP shows the folder paths, that you quoted, and below that shows the faulting program and module located within those folders, which are showing as 4.4 in the OP ... you are seeing the folder name and path in the quote you gave. I could have named that folder anything but the P3D exe and the terrain dll are both showing as 4.4 within the folder that was only named 43 because I made those folders when I did a clean install of 4.3 6 months ago. Afterburner, the timing of reinstalling 4.3 took longer than expected last night so the test flight is running right now but I’m at work. ORBX files and ActiveSky files will need to be adjusted for the revert back to 4.3 because they are not showing correctly. But on a flight plan crossing Europe twice with PMDG747-400 and ProATCX running. I’ll let you know the results when I get home in about 9 hours

They are just light objects that look like they would be for adding in ADE in an ADE library. not sure why they are listed as an addon scenery. I'll remove it as part of the testing. Apparently I've that file since back in 2008 and have just kept porting it over to each new update, never caused any issues tho since they are just design objects. They should be a ADE library and not a scenery. I wouldn't have made it a scenery unless the airport I was using needed it to be. But then it still wouldn't explain the error not happening over or near a specific place, but rather randomly over a large area (1st time was Ireland, 2nd time was England, 3rd time was Romania)

I'm about to revert to 4.3 and test. I've done some research on scenery library hierarchy for ORBX in the past, and in the 1st post, I attached 2 links to screenshots of where ORBX files are set and should be correct from what I've read. The screenshots are from the Lorby P3Dv4 Addon Organizer (the only Europe scenery I have aside from ADE updates to some airports in EU is the "ORBX!OPENLC_EUROPE1" file that is part of ORBX Global LC I'll let you know how 4.3 goes. I'll have to revert and then may have to remove some updates from some files (PMDG did not like if you updated their product but not the sim as I found out a month before upgrading to 4.3 from 4.1) and then I'll try the flight plan I created from Galway Ireland to Bucharest Romania and back to Galway. That roughly covert the extent of Europe I was trying to fly over on the KJFK-OERK route. I'll have to leave it running while I get some sleep but if it is still running when I wake up then I'll know 4.3 is good.

I was actually considering this, Afterburner. I had to do the same when I got GSX Level 2 because it turned out a DLL was not coded properly for Windows 7x64. Umberto was able to patch that pretty quick once we had gone thru all the other troubleshooting steps. I've suspected since updating to 4.4 that something didn't go right because even UTL update wouldn't work (utl_client.exe would launch on startup but never initialize in the sim) but I was the one person to have such an issue. So between that and now constant terrain.dll issues but only over Europe, I feel something somewhere has gotten corrupted. I learned from my mistake of not backing up my AI traffic and the Airlines from UTLive which is really the most time consuming part of the past full uninstall/reinstall. Since I didn't have issues with 4.3, could I just revert back to 4.3 for now? I'm halfway done with my work week and I feel like a full uninstall/reinstall would best be done on my days off, but in the meantime, if I can revert to 4.3 then I could still log some hours over the next few days.

Per the install guide from P3D website when updating P3D, you should go into add/remove programs and uninstall client, content, and scenery prior to installing the update ... that is what I did. Uninstalling 1 then installing its replacement is only if you are updating parts of the update but if downloading and installing the full update exe (recommended by P3D) then you have to uninstall all 3 then run the update exe. Again i ask, aside from misreading the folder path which the FOLDER is named “P3Dv43/P3D MAIN INSTALL” where are you seeing that it is still 4.3? From my 1st post, but not quoted on the reply: Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.4.16.27077, time stamp: 0x5bfdbb35 Faulting module name: terrain.dll, version: 4.4.16.27077 both P3D and terrain.dll are reading as 4.4 I dont have any europe specific scenery. I have ORBX global installed which has been uninstalled, reinstalled, and reforced migration. The only ORBX global install file that is Europe specific is the OpenLC_EU which has been uninstalled and reinstalled with the rest of the ORBX files listed above. This has not fixed the issue. Aside from deleting the P3D update and downloading it and reinstalling it, I have followed all other suggested documentation from P3D to isolate/resolve the issue without any luck. The link I posted above is a massive troubleshooting guide from P3D that I have followed for anything that’s relatable and it had not resolved the issue. I am reluctant to say it is a settings issue because it worked fine over NA, Canada, and NORAT without so much as FPS even dipping below 10 even at KJFK with 100% UTLive traffic and GSX Level 2, but it cannot even make it more than 30 minutes over Europe without this issue popping up. If it was an issue with settings too high it should have Presented elsewhere also, right? Especially at KJFK with that much going on, but it ran fine for 6 hours after that until I got over Europe.

Also, it’s not on a whim, because it happens 100% of the time I fly or test anywhere in Europe, but not anywhere else. Settings were left left as default after I tried deleting regeneration files, which are lower than they were when I had 4.3 installed without any issues. The issues presented itself only after the update to 4.4 and on lower settings in P3D. I have spend the better part of 4 days scouring the internet and trying every suggestion or fix and nothing has worked. Again, this issue is specifically only over Europe. A flight over half of North America had no issues, and a flight from North America, over part of Canada, and over the entire North Atlantic had no issues. The fault does not happen until I come over Europe.

That’s very strange because I deleted content, scenery, and client before then installing 4.4 ... also help/about in P3D reads 4.4 along with the new client, content, and scenery files in windows reads it as 4.4 i think you’re seeing the folder path which is a folder I made on the desktop of windows to install P3D into and called it P3Dv43 MAIN INSTALL ... everything P3D related has its own folder for install inside the desktop/P3Dv43 folder ... it’s just a folder name that was named that to organize where everything would be installed for P3D which at that time was version 4.3 aside from misreading the folder name path, what makes you think it’s reading it as 4.3?

I posted this in P3D website forums but no response so I'm hoping for better luck over here: I updated to P3D4.4 and updated all the add-ons that had updates. I was able to do 1 flight from KDTW-KJFT in Aerosoft CRJ900 without issues, but now I have tried 3 times to do a KJFK-OERK flight in the PMDG 747-400 and each of the 3 times somewhere over Europe P3D will become unresponsive with Windows Event Viewer giving terrain.dll as the fault. The message is below: Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.4.16.27077, time stamp: 0x5bfdbb35 Faulting module name: terrain.dll, version: 4.4.16.27077, time stamp: 0x5bfdbaa6 Exception code: 0xc0000005 Fault offset: 0x00000000000e316f Faulting process id: 0x251c Faulting application start time: 0x01d4c958dddeaf6f Faulting application path: C:\Users\Steven\Desktop\P3Dv43\P3Dv43 MAIN INSTALL\Prepar3D.exe Faulting module path: C:\Users\Steven\Desktop\P3Dv43\P3Dv43 MAIN INSTALL\terrain.dll Report Id: f6c8d6f4-3593-11e9-b060-d43d7e4c88bd The 1st time was right after coming over the western Ireland coast, the 2nd time was just south of London, and the 3rd time was over the boarder of Austria and Hungary. Needless to say, to get that far takes 5+ hours and for that entire time, there are no problems at all and everything runs great. But I can't make it past Europe without Terrain.dll causing a CTD. I do have ORBX Global Base pack, ORBX Global Vector, and ORBX Libraries installed and updated. Here is a screenshot of how they are listed in priority for P3D: http://prntscr.com/mnzsr9 http://prntscr.com/mnzsx9 and I am not sure if somehow they are causing the conflict of not. Since I don't know if this is an error that comes up quickly over Europe, or if I need to fly for many hours then go over Europe for it to be an issue, I can't say that uninstalling ORBX and trying the flight would or would not work. I don't have 26 hours available to test that. I have already tried deleting the common files and letting P3D recreate them. I didn't have any of these issues in 4.3 and again, if it has an update, its been installed. 3 hour flight over North America was fine. Takeoff from KJFK and all the way over Northern Atlantic is fine but once I get into Europe, there are issues. Update: I deleted and reinstalled all ORBX add-ons using the guide https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/137 ... nt-1267421 I forced migration for all ORBX add-ons and then relaunched the sim and set up a flight plan from Galway Ireland to Bucharest Romania and back to Galway and left it going in the PMDG 747-400 at FL350 while I went to work. Just got home and it never made it over England before Terrain.dll caused P3D4.4 to become unresponsive (somewhere around EGUN or EGUW airport). At this point, I don't feel it is a ORBX issue because I've ensured all the files were correctly installed and everything displays as it should as far as ground textures go. The only adjustments I made to the P3D settings after deleting regeneration files was to remove the pause on task check and to set cloud draw distance to maximum per ActiveSky. All other settings were left as default. I ran the test using everything I would normally use to fly (ActiveSky (updated), Aircraft (PMDG747-400, updated), ProATCX (no update available), ChasePlane (updated), and UTLive (update to 1.2 causes utl_client.exe to not work properly on my system so I'm still using 1.1) with the exception of Delta VA ACARS because this isn't a valid flight) to see if the reinstall and forced migration of ORBX along with deleting regeneration files worked, but it did not. This is clearly an issue over Europe and not a timing issue. The sim couldn't have been going more than 30 minutes after I left for work because it made it from Galway Ireland to about 25NM west of the eastern coast of England before it crashed. In the flight I was trying to do when the problem presented itself, i was able to fly from KJFK all the way to Europe without any issues which is 5 or 6 hours into the flight. Can ANYONE help me understand whats causing this issue? It is always flagged as Terrain.dll as the fault in Windows Event Viewer. I would really like to enjoy this new update of the $200 simulator I have but I can't if more than half the world in unflyable 😞

P3D doesn't do Kg for weight, at least not for me. it is either Lb or Gallons. That was an FMC option. See the screenshot in my last post where "Display fuel quantity as weight" is checked but displays in Lbs, but if unchecked, then it displays as Gallon which is far more complicated to convert since a gallon of fuel can weigh different depending on weather. Working with the dispatchers, I created an Excel sheet that will do the conversions so that will save time. I love using the GTN for navigation because I can add "user" waypoints - because GTN doesn't get updated with NaviGraph data but everything else does, then the GTN is missing waypoints, but that doesn't matter since I can add them in. And in answer to you question on why bag/cargo will always go overweight - The standard weight in Lbs for baggage PER PAX is 35Lbs. A Saab 340 holds 34 Pax, so 34x35=1190Lbs. That means I can only fill a MAX of 26 of the 34 seats before going overweight in the cargo hold. - https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/Weight Survey R20090095 Final.pdf (page 70) - that report actually shows 16.7Kg (36.81 converted to Lbs), but by averaging the weights, you would get an average weight of 17.36Kg (38.27 converted to Lbs). So by the report, I'm even more overweight than I am inputting. If we are to go with the weights from that report, then we can only fill at most 24 seats, or 10 people will need to watch their bags stay on the trucks as we push back, and that is not good for Business. And since I don't fly United jets, we don't kick passengers off. So I either have to take more pax without their bags to fill a flight and make money, force the pax to hold their bags (which is a violation of every airline and aviation agency in the world for a pax to hold their bags in their laps throughout the entire flight), or cut the amount of fuel carried for the flight which can and will lead to running out of fuel, or not having enough to meet reserve requirements set in place by FAA/ICAO/other aviation agencies. Fortunately, I can exceed the 900Lbs max and out in the real value and it doesn't impact the weight and balance because I hardly ever do take a full pax load, but it is 90% of the time more than 25 pax. (As an example, MMUN-MMHA plan has 24 adults and 1 child with baggage of 397Kg and cargo of 254Kg for a total cargo hold value of 651Kg. Fuel required including reserve/holds is 1274Kg. Now figure out the Pax weight (24x195=4680+80=4760Lbs for Pax weight, convert 651Kg to Lbs = 1435Lbs for Cargo/Bag weight, and convert fuel = 2809Lbs fuel. As you can see, I am overweight in the cargo hold, but well underweight in the pax cabin. Input all that into P3D and my ramp weight at loading/boarding is 27,334Lbs, 2000Lbs underweight - http://prntscr.com/lldxeo ). It works, but that would have been FAR faster to just plug the numbers into the FMC without having to figure out Pax weight, convert from Kg to Lbs, and then plug the numbers in.

When your dispatcher tells you to load xx,xxxKG in fuel, 27pax who have baggage and cargo is x,xxxKG and you then need to convert that to LB to make it work in the P3D fuel/payload planner, then figure out how much can go where ... have you seen the Carenado setup for P3D default fuel/cargo loading? http://prntscr.com/ll7cq7 Steps for doing it Manually: 1) Get Kg from Dispatch. 2) Convert Kg to Lb 3) figure out what goes where (because you will ALWAYS end up with more than the "900Lbs MAX" for bag/cargo which involves calculations to ensure weight/balance. Steps for doing it in the FMC: 1) Get Kg from Dispatch 2) Put weights in Kg from dispatch into the corresponding sections in the FMC. Done. How is it NOT easier to do it in the FMC?!?! Time is money. I only get paid for wheels up, not to sit on the ground for 20 minutes doing conversions and calculations while my pax are waiting in the terminal 5 minutes before push back. Why should I have to do all these conversions when i paid for an aircraft that had a utility that I didn't have to do conversions for? If I wanted a S340 without a FMC, I could have spent $17 on the Virtualcol Saab 340 and added the GTN onto it. Having an FMC in the aircraft is about 40% of why I would get that aircraft. I have never in my life spent over $100 for "compatible" software that having one installed rendered part of the other useless. It's a massive waste of both REAL time and REAL money. And as stated above, I can have both by not installing the GTN into the panel, but having it in the drop-down menu, but then the FMC just stays stuck on "Loading Data Base" anyway. So I guess you are right, it is not important, because the more I think about this, the more frustrated with this product I get. At this point, if I get a flight assigned a Saab 340, I reject it and request dispatch to assign me a CRJ for that route instead. I don't even fly the S340 anymore because after all that money, only part of it will ever work. I feel like I went to the Mercedes car dealership and they told me "You can give us the money for the Mercedes, but you're really only going to be driving this Ford Pinto."

That's what I was afraid of 😞 sad tho. Carenado should have a look at this. At least keep the fuel/payload options available. The GTN does not actually adjust fuel/payload so it has to be done manually the hard way if you spend the extra $ for the GTN. Kinda backwards I think - spend more and have systems become inop? The other option is to have the GTN configured to the aircraft, but not installed into the dashboard. That will keep the FMC alive, but my FMC is stuck at "Loading Data Base" which is an issue with the FMC and NaviGraph data that I can't seem to get straightened out either. But that's for another topic.

To properly load the aircraft with the fuel and payload that was assigned at dispatch. Yes, it can be done in the P3Dv4 menu, but is more time consuming and requires conversions. With the FMC, you just type in the total fuel on board and select the line key and its done to the exact amount. Same with passengers and baggage/cargo. They can be evenly and accurately loaded easily with just typing in the value and selecting the corresponding line key ... As I said in my 1st post, this is the only reason I would want to use the FMC at all. I am using the GTN 750 from Flight1 software. I don't know if that is "your" mod or not. I posted this here because Carenado suggests using this GTN but once it is installed, it apparently renders the FMC entirely non-operational.

For the Carenado Saab 340 in P3Dv4.3: So if I have the GTN installed, I can't use the FMC? None of the butons on the FMS are active when GTN installed. How does one go about setting fuel and payload without the FMC? There are options in P3Dv4 for fuel and payload, but these tend to be more time consuming because I have to calculate the fuel for each station from the total amount to be added, then add the fuel in, then do the same for each passenger section if I disable the GNT being on the panel (but still available in the menu), the the FMS just sits on "Loading Data Base" and I've tried all the fixes Carenado suggested but they don't fix the issue. I only need the FMC for inputting the fuel and payload. I use GTN for navigation.