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Guest tmetzinger

PMDG review on Flightsim.com

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There is a pretty balanced review of the 737NG on FlightSim.com.Thanks to the new patch, the product is a lot better than described in the review (I'll have to check out the holds - I think the airplane flew it correctly last time).The verdict was that the product wasn't as polished as expected for one that is at the top of the pay scale for an add-on. I tend to agree with this assessment - I know if I'd bought the product in it's current state (SU1.1) I'd have been a lot happier than when I got it at the 1.0 release. I definitely think the product as it stands is worth the money.-Tim Metzinger

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Sure he is correct on some things but anyone who knows anything about flying a 737NG can tell he has some learning to do before he talks about things he knows little if anything about! Oh I forgot, flying the other 737 makes him an expert ;)[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/winglets_lg.jpg [h3] AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h3]

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--Sure he is correct on some things but anyone who knows anything about flying a 737NG can tell he has some learning to do before he talks about things he knows little if anything about! Could you expand on that? I just read the review myself. Would love to know what you mean by this? Not being rude. Just trying to gain the view from this forum. CheersSimon Lloyd

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Well, I think I can give you an example. He's talking about the FMS and he says, and I quote: "...allow the speed to build to 210 knots then with the A/THR armed I select LVL CHG on the MCP and allow the computer to take over the power levers. The climb rate is impressive, even at 210 knots (the FMC governs speed when LVL CHG is used so my 250 knots is ignored) the aircraft climbs at 3000 fpm or more..."Obviously he's not aware of how LVL CHG works. And he apparently does not know the speed/climb rate for the NG.I was also surprised about the CATII landing he was mentioning as a CATIII. Guess he was lucky to get the bird down without manual intervention in the final setting down.But all in all, except the minor discrepancies, I think it was a review worth reading...Regards,

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It's easy to read between the lines, you will see little hints like "50% N1" 50% N1? Where does one come up with 50% N1? It's 40% N1, you can make up numbers if you like but it won't change this fact lol. "nose up to 20 Degrees" to hold what??? v2? V2+20? Was he light or heavy? Did he try R-TO? I guess it's all in the lack of details. "I select LVL CHG on the MCP and allow the computer to take over the power levers. The climb rate is impressive, even at 210 knots (the FMC governs speed when LVL CHG is used so my 250 knots is ignored) the aircraft climbs at 3000 fpm or more" HUH? Now this is the keeper, First, LVL CHG goes like this, A/T goes N1 and the PITCH MODE goes MCP SPEED. WHat does the FMC have to do with this? This one thing alone hould help anyone to see what I am talking about.....[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/winglets_lg.jpg [h3] AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h3]

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Yeah, his understanding of how LVL CHG (FLCH) works is really wrong - its a continueous thrust mode that pitches for the speed you have set in the MCP window... his assesment is totally wrong.Ryan

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I see a good point made. Puttting the words AT and LVLCHG does show a lack of understanding. I follow your arguement and agree with you.I also noticed the avsim.com vs flightsim.com battle there. Maybe I am overlooking something, but there was a hint of this in the review. But maybe im far wrong on this.All the bestSimon Lloyd

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Flew the hold at ABBOT on the ABBOT1D into Stansted London today. Performed right on the money. No problems encountered.:-bigangel

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My only question for this forum is whether the AP heading control works or not?Colin

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Colin,Have been working flawless for me since I bought it (first release). I wonder if he just tried to change the heading bug without engaging a roll mode for the AFDS. ;-) I'm assuming that he was testing the FD without activating the A/P here.Cheers,

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Yes - heading hold works perfectly from what I can tell.Regards,Philip Manwaring

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I really like it when he compared the NG's FMC to the other *ONE*, of course he did not notice that this FMC actually is PART of the system ;)[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/winglets_lg.jpg [h3] AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h3]

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250kts in the speed window for takeoff and firewalling the thrust levers?? Who is this guy, Captain Cowboy? :D

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There are a few other discrepancies too,"As is the trend with complex cockpits the displays can be undocked in order to see them more clearly although it would seem that PMDG didn't think we'd want to see outside as the undocked displays appear in the top half of the screen (where the external view is) and are both un-movable and un-resizable so would present a bit of a problem if you were trying to land."Hmmm, it would seem someone there doesn't know how to use thier mouse search for the correct place to grab a hold of the undocked displays. I have no trouble moving them."The big issue here is there seems to be no save or import option so if you have a regular route be ready to have to input it manually EVERY time you fly."Hmmm, we seem to have trouble locating the SAVE LSK after activating and executing our route eh? And in seeing the CO ROUTE LSK on the RTE page, haven't we?"No drama there but I thought it only fair to you the purchasing public to take my life in my hands and fully stall the wing. The speed bled back as before and the stall warning activates again around 145 knots and I hold the nose up, rate of descent increases and when I am sure the wing is fully stalled I start to recover, by this point the nose has dropped to about 10

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Lucky ye guys didn't read my review over at simflight eh? I'd get grilled in here!Will be writing a follow up review once all the issues are dealt with to be entirely fair, but at the moment, this baby is keeping me real satisfied-fly her at least 3 hours a day!JohnP 2.53 GHZ512 RAMWINXPGFORCE 4 128MB Ti4600http://homepage.eircom.net/~eamonnmca/images/logo_ba.JPGwww.bavirtual.co.uk Senior Captain Simflight.com Staff Reviewerhttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

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Oh my GOD. I just read the review..."Clearly, the FMC isn't up to the standard of addons supplied by Wilco, PSS or Flight1..."He is kidding right? I mean, the DF734's FMC is a joke, PSS dont even have the capability to enter routes in their 747/777 and the airbus dont have an FMC-it's a MCDU!UGH! The only FMC around which can supercede the PMDG FMC is that of WILCO'S(really WELP eh?) 767PIC, and PMDG are nearly there...I'm surprised, Andrew Herd is usually pretty good.JohnP 2.53 GHZ512 RAMWINXPGFORCE 4 128MB Ti4600http://homepage.eircom.net/~eamonnmca/images/logo_ba.JPGwww.bavirtual.co.uk Senior Captain Simflight.com Staff Reviewerhttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

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>He is kidding right? I mean, the DF734's FMC is a joke, PSS>dont even have the capability to enter routes in their 747/777Considering that both the PSS747 and DF737 are both originally FS2000 aircraft there is no surprise that the new ones are more advanced.>and the airbus dont have an FMC-it's a MCDU!Talk about nit-picking, it's close enough for most!It's nice to see how open everyone is to a review round here...if the review isn't singing the praises then it, and the reviewers, are sent to hell in a handbasket.Nice one guys keep up that open mindedness :-rollDavid

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Oh boy David, I see you took the minor point of John's post to respond eh? Let me see here, everyone except you agree that there are some bigger mistakes than just calling something a CDU insted of a MCDU. That someone is claiming to be fair and balanced and has some pull in the flight sim world needs to know what they are talking about (737 NG Aircraft) before putting out such a review. You think it's nit picking when the guy does not even understand LVL CHG and gives this miss-taken view on his review to unweary readers? I don't think it was Andrew but nonetheless to put such an incompetent reveiw based upon such miss-information is in very bad taste. [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/winglets_lg.jpg [h3] AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h3]

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The PSS Airbus MCDU itself isn't bad at all - the problem is that the plane doesn't follow what it's telling it to do half the time! There's serious problems with some of the psuedo waypoints disapearing etc - I've pretty much given up trying to get the managed NAV mode to control speed correctly in the descent etc. The 747/777 are old and I hope the reviewer wasn't trying to compare those because they surely don't have the features that any of the newer ones have. (you can't even enter airways into the RTE page on them for instance)I'm pretty confident after a couple more patches and surely with the 800/900, PMDG is gonna have a PIC-level FMS. Hopefully AVSIM's review will be done by someone actually familiar with how the Boeing AFDS/FMS actually works. I won't deny that the NG has some issues that still need to be addressed, but this guy really shouldn't have been reviewing this product.Ryan

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To be fair, most if not all of the stuff that doesn't seem quite right was written by his co-author, Kris Hislop, who did the FM, FMC and avionics part. I'm puzzled, since it would seem he had flying training, yet in the stall, he describes how he keeps pulling back on the stick, never unloading the wings? Surely NOT the way to recover from a stall???One thing I can wholly agree on is Andrew's verdict on the ND. It IS absolutely beautiful-the way that exquisite, thin Pos Trend Vector is curling round in turns! I was stunned when I first saw how smooth that is, and once the linedrawing bug gets fixed, that ND will truly be perfect!Martijn

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Oh, and absolutely no issue with HDG SEL - I couldn't duplicate the reviewer's issue at all with CMD disengaged - the roll mode still drove the FD.Ryan

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>Hmmm, we seem to have trouble locating the SAVE LSK after>activating and executing our route eh? And in seeing the CO>ROUTE LSK on the RTE page, haven't we?Well, unless you happen to have a REAL Boeing 737 FMC user's guide (mine's by Bulfer), you'd never know how to retreive a stored flight plan. I was frustrated by this until I dug out the FMC manual and figured it out.Frankly, a lot of the misconceptions in the review can be traced to the frankly poor documentation that comes with the product. This is NOT a complaint - I'd rather have the product as is than an inferior product with better docs, but for someone new to heavy iron, the docs given leave a LOT to be desired.As I said, it was a mostly fair review.-Tim Metzinger

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Dave, you should know that I wrote a review for Simflight.com on the PMDG737NG. Read it. Then come back to me and tell me I can't stand to see the NG get criticised.You're right on one thing though, the PSS747/777 was developed for FS2000. And so was the WILCO 767PIC. Ah...but that's..that's PIC! Well, the author(s) of the review put the PSS747/777 in the same class as PIC767. Downright outrageous!JohnP 2.53 GHZ512 RAMWINXPGFORCE 4 128MB Ti4600http://homepage.eircom.net/~eamonnmca/images/logo_ba.JPGwww.bavirtual.co.uk Senior Captain Simflight.com Staff Reviewerhttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

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Hi Tim,Agreed. As I said, much, if not most of the review was pretty good. If they wanted to know how to SAVE and IMPORT a saved FMC flight plan, they could have asked here. But they did say 'there seems to be no way', they didn't flat out say 'there is no way to do it'. But the more I think about it, they should be raked over the coals for the full wing stall bit. Several others have pointed out what they found to be discrepencies too, but I still thought it was pretty good. :)Regards,Jim Richards

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Hey Randy,>Oh boy David, I see you took the minor point of John's post>to respond eh? And what exactly was the major point, could you please clarify it for me? As far as I could see it was a post purely to slag off the reviewers.>Let me see here, everyone except you agree that>there are some bigger mistakes than just calling something a>CDU insted of a MCDU. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, are you saying that the PMDG 737 does infact have more serious problems than a miss named FMC in a review? Would that not make the review a more accurate report of the product.Also I can neither agree nor disagree about the models' glitches as I don't have the product. I was considering getting it but was hanging off to see what the community had to say before parting with my cash, I'm glad I did considering that these issues have come to light.>You think it's nit picking when the guy does not even understand >LVL CHG and gives this miss-taken view on his review to unweary>readers?No, I think it's nit picking when a reviewer is blasted for making a small error over the name of a management computer. Also I'm sure if people want to find out the true function of LVL CHG mode they can read up on it using the product manuals. For the use in a review I'm pretty sure that most peple will not mind this error, all they have to know is that this mode changes the planes altitude. I don't think it's of any consequence if those "unweary readers" don't know if the autopilot gets to that altitude through the use of one set thrust value and pitch changes to maintain the climb speed or if it uses a fixed pitch and varies the thrust... just so long as it gets there. >I don't think it was AndrewCorrect, it was the other reviewer who wrote the flight performance review.David

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