I tried an ILS approach with an engine failed , the aircraft just could not maintain the localizer.Can the real aircraft do an autoland with one engine failed ? One more thing , can anyone tell me where the rudder trim is ?

Well there's your problem!The rudder has to be trimmed so that the ball (slip/skid indicator in the PFD) is almost centered. I can tell you that the real A/P won't be able to do anything unless the aircraft is stable yaw-wise.I tried this in the sim (note real sim) and the aircraft would simply roll to more than 30 degrees bank angle and the AP would disconnect. Needless to say, an autoland would be impossible.The rudder trim is on the center pedestal. It's the round knob and it's pretty big. Turn it towards the running engine. Don't forget: with every power change you have to retrim the rudder!Once that is done, you can start with your non normal checklist and once the APU is running, you should be able to perform an autoland.Just don't tell anyone you did 'cause it's not really official ;-)Regards and good luck,Mark

You cannot auto land with one engine in a 737. (777 yes.)One engine checklist calls for a flaps 15 vref landing, auto throttle disengaged using the flight director for guidance.Autoland requires: autothrottle engaged and a flaps 30 or 40 landing.You would also not use the rudder trim but use the rudder pedal to hold the correct angle to the rnwy, if your trimmed all the way one way and need to correct for a gust your in trouble.

"You cannot auto land with one engine in a 737."I had trouble deciphering the Maintenance Manual in relation to this, Wallace. Does the A/P and/or A/T trip off automatically when one engine dies, or is it simply procedure (for safety) that these are manually disengaged? Or does the A/P trip off automatically at a later point when it senses it cannot maintain the runway centreline?I was thinking that even though you have lost an engine, you should have enough hydraulics for flight controls, A/P actuators, etc and electricity on both sides of the main electrical bus (c/o of the Bus Transfer Switch) for Flight Control Computer ops. I read that during dual channel operation (when at least one A/P is in G/S mode), the FCC's must have independent power supplies (not possible with only one engine providing electrical power), but would that prevent you from using a single channel approach (not "land", that is)? Thanks for any insight.Cheers.Ian.P.S. Re "deciphering".... I'm not sure I understand the NG A/T servo setup. It has two servos, unlike the 767 and 747-400, but only one ARM switch (unlike the 777).According to the Maintenance Manual, in cruise, if the engine thrust has a differential of 2000 pounds, the A/T disconnects automatically. It doesn't mention what happens in climb/descent or single A/P Channel Approach, however! With both A/P's engaged for Autoland, I read that if the A/T rapidly commands a difference of 10 degrees between the two (thrust)levers during dual A/P ops (not if there is a constant split), the A/T disengages. With one engine dead, would the servo for the dead engine still try to move the respective thrust lever forward?

Ian ,the autothrottle will arm with one engine running it will not respond though(pushing toga will disarm it). To fly on one engine you will be near max con power and the other throttle will be at idle(throttle split alone will cause disarm).to engage the autothrottle the engine cutoff switch needs to be in the run position, so if you have shut down an engine it will be in cutoff, therefore no autothrottle.There is no reason you will loose the ability to use the A/P.You can still fly perfectly without an autothrottle, BTW southwest airlines NG's have no autothrottle.

So you would be able to perform an autoland. Of course no one would ever recommend it, but technically it should be possible.Right?Mark

Theoretically no, remember 737 has no rudder A/P servos .Even on a normal approach or autoland sometimes rudder input is required by the pilot .And again one eng op's- VREF 15+additive is required, so there again autoland is out (need vref 30 or 40+5) Also with one engine you can't engage the A/T which you need for an autoland .Technically possible? Maybe.....

>You would also not use the rudder trim but use the rudder>pedal to hold the correct angle to the rnwy, if your trimmed>all the way one way and need to correct for a gust your in>trouble.Hmm, I wouldn't like to have the added workload of huge rudder forces if a single-engine go-around were needed. I'd use the rudder trim to reduce the pedal force down the approach, and call pilot-not-flying to wind on some more if a go-around were needed.I fail to see how the rudder trim would affect the available rudder authority in either direction when compared to holding the rudder in manually.Besides, I was taught not to play with the rudders on the approach to correct for gusts, and instead allow the aircraft's natural stability and yaw damper to do the work for you. There seems to be a difference in instructing techniques in the UK and USA regarding this.

"to engage the autothrottle the engine cutoff switch needs to be in the run position, so if you have shut down an engine it will be in cutoff, therefore no autothrottle."Thanks, Wallace.So in this case, procedures dictate what you can/can't do."To fly on one engine you will be near max con power and the other throttle will be at idle(throttle split alone will cause disarm)."So even if you left the cutoff lever in Idle, the servo wouldn't at least attempt to move the throttles forward? I was thinking, perhaps, if you left the lever in IDLE, the EEC would be powered and therefore providing engine parameter feedback (N1's, N2's, etc). I thought perhaps that the A/T, in this case, would attempt to drive the servo of the dead engine forward... in this case all the way forward, roughly matching the position of the live engine thrust lever."There is no reason you will loose the ability to use the A/P."You mean other than the inability to select Dual? (due to the Bus Isolation inability after G/S capture).I thought, perhaps, that the autopilot, being unable to track the Loc in VOR/LOC or APP due to strong crosswinds plus engine out would default to a different mode (CWS perhaps) once a certain Loc deviation had been exceeded?In single A/P approach mode, with the A/T operated manually, single channel approach, would be correct to say that there was no kind of back-up flare mode?Thanks.Cheers.Ian.

>>You would also not use the rudder trim but use the rudder>>pedal to hold the correct angle to the rnwy, if your trimmed>>all the way one way and need to correct for a gust your in>>trouble.>>Hmm, I wouldn't like to have the added workload of huge rudder>forces if a single-engine go-around were needed. I'd use the>rudder trim to reduce the pedal force down the approach, and>call pilot-not-flying to wind on some more if a go-around were>needed.Your airline procedures may vary, but Boeing specifically recommends resetting the rudder trim to neutral as you start a single-engine approach, to minimize adverse yaw when thrust on the good engine is reduced.I'll quote:===============================================================Engine Inoperative, Rudder Trim - All Instrument ApproachesRudder trim may be set to zer ot facilitate directional control during thrust reduction. This should be accomplished by 500 feet AFE to allow the PNF ample time to perform other duties and make appropriate altitude callouts.Centering the rudder trim prior to landing allows most of the rudder pedal pressure to be removed when the thrust of the operating engine is retarded to idle at touchdown. Full ruder authority and rudder pedal steering capability are not affected by rudder trim.However, if touchdown occurs with the rudder still trimmed for the approach, be prepared for the higher rudder pedal forces required to track the centerline on rollout.================================================================The procedure I was taught in the King Air is similar - rudder trim is used for single engine ops in climb, cruise, descent, and the initial part of the approach, but it's rolled out no later than the final approach fix or at 1000 AGL, which ever comes first. Then one just pulls back his foot as he pulls back the power. I think it's easier to remember you have a dead engine when your leg hurts :-)As another point of discussion, Mike Ray in his checkride survival handbook discusses the V1 engine failure and says that for the initial few seconds of liftoff and climb, to use aileron only for directional control, and not go stomping on a rudder, especially if the failure occurs after V2. Roll the wings level, and then push the pedal under the lower yoke horn, when you're ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that you know which pedal to push. Pushing the wrong pedal will ruin your day.

Well, I've never had a chance to try it in a 737 but in the 757 Sim You had better do as Tim says. I practiced an Engine out approach and everything was great right up until the point I pulled the throttles back to idle over the Threshold. Rudder was trimmed into the Lost engine and Off into the Grass we Go :-lolRegardsPaul Gollnick :-coolTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Groupwww.precisionmanuals.com

>Well, I've never had a chance to try it in a 737 but in the>757 Sim You had better do as Tim says. I practiced an Engine>out approach and everything was great right up until the point>I pulled the throttles back to idle over the Threshold. Rudder>was trimmed into the Lost engine and Off into the Grass we Go >:-lolDon't try that at Oakland or you'll get wet!I once stepped on the "wrong" pedal in a 737-300 sim during a V1 cut, just to see how the sim would work simulating a hard rollover. Obviously we didn't flip, but I did make myself ill as well as cause the hydraulics to reset.

Hi sorry for logging in again with this ID.Not comparing,but even on the 320 during the approach the aircraft is trimmed out and at 100ft we neutralise the trim as in another 70ft we're going to retard the thrust levers.So basically when you are on the process of flaring you don't have to take any kind of rudder force and concentrate on your flare.You will though have to take the rudder force on to your legs once you neutralise trim till you retard the thrust lever.One more question :After I chop one engine with the A/t and A/P engaged for the Approach(since we now know that we can't carry out an autoland),it manages to stay on the LOC initially but later during the approach as the power slowly starts to kick in it's not able to maintain the LOC but still maintains the G/S.My question is if I give rudder inputs will the aircraft maintain the LOC.I've noticed one more thing,please try this without the A/P- cut one engine notice the Slip Index sway initially it neutralises automatically without any rudder inputs?Where is the rudder trim nob on the PMDG?Regards Srinivas.Just got endorsed on the A320.

good morning, we also trim the aircraft (ATR). We do not have autoland in the ATR anyway. When we start do reduce power on the glideslope, we also trim if necessary. The QRH (ATR) says for landing : "do not reduce power before nose wheel is on the ground "That

Interesting replies. Reducing the trim to zero before the flare was presented as an option to me in training on a B737-700 sim. If trim was not zeroed, I just pulled back the same leg as the throttle to be reduced in the flare.To be clear: I didn't completely remove the pedal force in the approach, just used a little trim (up to 3 units) to reduce it. So in the flare the pedal force in the opposite direction was not much at all.As for our PMDG 737, I don't think its engine out handling characteristics are accurate at all. But this could be a Microsoft limitation. Srinivas's comment regarding the slip indicator is one symptom of this, and lack of significant roll with yaw is another. But until motorised yokes and rudders are available at a decent price, I'm not too bothered about this! ;-)