Two America West pilots arrested for being drunk

[Guest Tim W]

"Suspended with pay" !!! Thats a joke!!!Tim

[Donmo 6]

It's 8 hours between bottle and throttle, but needs to be adjusted by the bottle size and quantity of bottles consumed. That 8 hours is bases upon 1 beer or 1 8oz. mixed drink, not 12!Don

[Guest KenG]

Actually, I can say I never have gone to work drunk or hungover. I did go to school (college/grad school) with a hangover on a couple occasions. Also, it doesn't matter how long it is between drinking and flying. The FAA rules that supersede the 8 hour from bottle to throttle are the ones stating no pilot shall perform the duties of a required flight crewmember nor may they have a blood alcohol content of 0.04 or above.They teach you that kind of stuff for your PPL. Hard to believe an ATP would have forgotten. These morons knew what was up and knew that what they were doing was wrong. I'm glad they were caught before a tragedy resulted. And as someone mentioned, it looks like 2 more slots have opened for those furloughed pilots.

[Donmo 6]

I hope your surgeon doesn't have a "hangover". Would you be so lax to accept that? There is a difference in responsability between an airline pilot and a factory worker or desk jockey. These guys (and gals) are paid good money to have and hold that position and not make stupid moves. They are given off enough time to "celebrate" when they need to, NOT the night before a flight. I hope they bust them to hell for this. There are too many GOOD, RESPECTABLE, RESPONSIBLE pilots out there to fill those seats. Would you want your wife, kid or mother on that flight? My wish: May they WALK everywhere they need to go to for life. By the way. I AM a pilot.Don

[Guest]

TwisterIf its so accurate why do they have blood tests after a breath test?I am not a drinker, maybe one glass of wine with a meal if I go out but maybe these guys were social drinkers and believed that they had no alcohol in their blood the following morning when they turned up for duty.Is someone guilty if they didnt know they were doing wroung? I dont want to side with these guys but just feel that we shouldnt judge until they have been proved guilty.Maybe the FAA should rule that pilots arent allowed to drink 24 hrs before a flight or are only allowed to consume 2 units the night before a flight.Often the regulations themselves cause problems and confusion.8 hrs bottle to throttle may be okay for a meal with a couple of small glasses of red wine but not so if someone goes on a drinks binge.Two pilots crashed and were killed in a Cessna 150. Both were found to have quite high levels of drugs (pot) in their systems which was traced to having been smoked at a party 48 hrs prior to the crash.I am sure both Pilots were sure that the drugs had long gone out of their systems.Finally yes they should be payed (innocent until proved guilty)Peter (non drinker )

[Guest]

I don't care how accurate they are or aren't. One indisputable fact is that they can't register alcohol where none exists. The fact that they registered on a breathalizer at all indicates that they had been drinking, which is inexcusable. And alcohol does not remain in the body for extended times as with some drugs. It is metabolized rather quickly, as anyone whose had a few beers and can't find a restroom can attest. Also, the reason they were caught was that security personel smelled alcohol on their breath, which indicates they had been drinking farely recently. I wonder how many people would be willing to give these two bozos the benefit of the doubt if they were piloting a plane they were riding in.Mike Stone

[BobK 0]

Well, they also failed the simple roadside type tests....

[BobK 0]

Also, standard roadside tests were perfomred at the airport, which they both failed. They were then taken to jail, and agreed to take the breath tests.

[Guest]

MikeYou dont believe "everything" you read in the press do you? ;-)Is it "fact" that Alcohol was smelt on the pilots breath or was that an imaginative reporter?Both pilots had exemplorary records with the airlineWhile I imagine one pilot with life problems who is also a secret alcoholic hitting the bottle for breakfast first thing in the morning I find it hard to believe that both Pilots decided to hit the bottle first thing in the morning.Okay, maybe they did and maybe there really are fairies but im afraid I take press reports as being half truths with a good dose of fabrication and an even larger dose of imagination.It is more likely that they both went out the night before and consumed a large amount of alcohol which "Can" still have the consumers over the limit the next morning.I am not protecting or advocating what these guys appear to have done only pointing out that (a)someone is innocent until proved guilty.(b)Dont take what the press say as fact because it rarely isPeter

[Guest]

Ok, Ok, you win....two planes did not really collide over Germany as the press reported.I'm gone.Mike Stone

[Guest]

MikeIts not a win or loose thing?You must surely remember the bad and innacurate press MSFS had around sept 11 th.Did you take that reporting as being detailed accurate reporting of fact?Like two planes colliding over Germany Two Pilots "were arrested on suspicion of being in charge of an airliner while under the influence of alcohol.Let all the facts come out, let them be charged and found guilty and im sure their careers will then be finished.Peter

[Guest Murf]

It is scary to hear this sort of thing. While I am an avid flight simmer I still get a sick feeling in my stomach when I know I have to fly. However, I agree 100% that you cannot believe everything you hear/read/see in the media. I have seen first hand that what actually happens can differ greatly from what the media reports.With respect to the breath testing, I do not know the make/model of the instrument used to test these two pilots or the laws in place in that State. However, the model of instrument that I am familiar with is very accurate. As a previous poster has stated the person taking the test is observed for a period of time prior to the first breath test, usually while the breathalyser technician is performing tests of the instrument to determine it is working properly. The observation of the person is done to ensure

[Guest rcritz]

It was mentioned in another post below but just to be clear:The FAA limit is .04, not .08. And that's in addition to the 8 hour rule. It doesn't supercede it as alleged below. The conditions of FAR 91.17 are complementary; failing any of the 4 tests disqualifies a person from serving as a flight crew member.Also, for the person below who submitted that they "agreed" to the breath tests. They have no choice. The same FAR 91.17 requires such consent. Failure to give consent is viewed as a violation of that regulation with the same penalties applied.

[Guest GabrielR]

Those who said that the breath tests are accurate are 100% right, (I am a Physician), but the clinical examination (road test)is more useful in determining if the judgement, and/or the hability to operate a machine are impaired when it is conducted by trained personnel. The Blood and the breath test are the results of many variables that include not only how much you drink but also the capability of your body to metabolize and clear the alcohol from your tissues including the blood and the lungs. Therefore when the FAA or any authority states a Permitted level of Alcohol in your blood or your breath to operate an aircraft, they are giving a very general indication of all the variables described above. In many places in the world the Breath test is only used as a mean of confirmation and a legal back-up and is always performed when the cinical tests are positive.Bottom line: don't drink and fly, not even a single cup of wine if you are not lucky and your body does not clear alcohol fast enough you could be in serious trouble like those guys.

[Guest]

I don't understand why these "Flame" topics are even discussed in a FS2002 Discussion forum??? What does it have to do with FS2002??? Perhaps there should be a "Off Topic" "Moral" Debate forum or something. Hell I'll be flying with a beer in my hand tomorrow night! ;-)Lance