Actually, a tablespoon of NyQuil and I am wearing the lampshade and calling everyone "hun". Vanilla Coke, not yet. Going home,See ya

arrrrgggg

>FAA says if you test above .08, youre too intoxicated to >operate an aircraft of any kind.Actually, the FAR's state .04 as the limit at which you could be busted.

Sorry Tim, I never meant to imply that you were saying it was heartwarming, I just meant overall, the article did not comfort me.Darn this text- doesn't convey hidden meanings well, does it ;-)Kathy- Stay on the soapbox! The whole point of the discussion boards is to discuss- I love hearing everyone's point of view, and then heartlessly basing it to bits :-lolSeriously, this has been a really good discussion, and I have enjoyed hearing everyone's thoughts

There was a link above in message 37 to a story about the redemption of Lyle Prouse. That story was written just before another development occurred: immediately before leaving office in 2001, President Clinton issued him a complete pardon. Although I'm a Republican in this case I say right on big Bill, this pardon was surely justified.In my State driving/flying is legal by State law at under 1.5%, most States it is 1.0, in Florida the limit is 0.8, the FAA is 0.4 (as we all know now). And the two pilots were 0.84 and 0.91, just barely over the (rather severe) State regulation which applied (Florida) and twice the FAA.Just to establish that the pardon occurred, its in the last sentence of the ABC NEWS story below:http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Dail...lots020701.html== WHK ==

KathyBut what rules? Is a pilot going to say "ah yes my blood alcohol level is .038 so Im okay".I have been away from home. Your co-pilot is your best buddy, You are in some foreign city, you book into the hotel get rid of your flying togs, have a shower and meet down at the bar.You will probably then go out to a club girlie or otherwise and time the amount of time you stay out by the time of your departure the following morning or how heavy the day is.How long you stay out is also influenced by who you meet or dont as the case may be.I am lucky in the sense that I dont like to drink a lot and go for apple juice or some other soft drink(I hate not feeling in control)but I can well see how soemone who likes their drink could get into a late night situation drinking a stream of Alcohol over a number of hours.They hit the sack for say four hours and wake up regretting the previous night but now they have to fly.oh yes they had every intention of only going out till 11pm but then that blonde with the blue eyes came into the scene and the time slipped to 2am and of course they had to buy her drinks too.Lonely pilots miles from home get up to stupid things and are suckers for female company.I can well imagine how this captain and his co-pilot ended up where they were carrying too much alcohol in their systemsPeter

Actually, I think you are missing Peter's point. The problem is that there is no way to easily determine whether, even if complying with an eight hour rule, that the BAC will come down to less than .04 or whatever the legal limit is for you. Some companies have increased the hour limit to 12 because of this reason...too many people failing random screenings under the old 8 hour limit. I remember in driver's ed, a card was handed out which had a chart referencing body weight and the amount of time taken to metabolize a certain amount of alcohol. Something like that issued to crews could prevent at least a few such episodes.As for Squigee, I detected a hint of self righteous grandstanding upon the backs of those bruised in your first post, your reply to the line I casted leaves no doubt.

"I can well imagine how this captain and his co-pilot ended up where they were carrying too much alcohol in their systems" So can I Peter. It's called no self-discipline or self-control. Being away from home with nothing better to do than downing a few beers and trying to get layed is a damn poor excuse. Trip

It is 8 hours per the FAR's, but most airlines mandate a 24-hour rule with termination as the penalty for a violation. Of course, union rules dictate a suspension until completion of the investigation. I doubt if ALPA will do too much on behalf of these two beyond what is part of their contract.Bob

it is no excuse at all. The rules, both FAA and America West, are quite specific. They srewed the pooch.Bob

I just heard on the news tonight that America Wests policy extended the 8 hours to 12 hours. Like I said, that doesn't mean you can have 1 12 oz. beer or a fifth of vodka and wait the same amount of time. The quantity determines the time. These guys blew it if all that is being released is true. It sounds like it is. Stupid people in this world. Oh well. I guess American West has a slot open for 2 pilots!Don

When society looses all sense of responsibility, and accountability, than that society is surely lost.What's so hard about saying, "Yep...broke the rules. They knew them. Sucks to be them."Every accommodation for the breaking of basic civility, basic right or wrong, brings us closer to chaos and mayhem.Not in any way directed at anyone, except those stupid pilots.Cheers,bt

Just to clarify :-) Reading my posts please dont think this is my lifestyle as I very rarely consume alcohol.I do stay in hotels which offer "pilot rates" and tend to be frequented by corporate and airline pilots.I can assure you that after a hard day Pilots do frequent the bars, go out and generally wind down.It happens all the time to differing levels and these guys do get into situations miles from home which they may regret.I am in no way condoning any pilot taking control of an aircraft while under the influence of drink or drugs, all I have said is (a)dont believe all you read in the press(B)a man is innocent until proved guiltyIf they are found guilty of knowingly taking charge of an aircraft while intoxicated then I would take away their licences too.Peter

"(a)dont believe all you read in the press"-All the press reports I have read thus far have said the pilots are under suspicion or are accused of flying drunk. No newspaper would risk a slander lawsuit. As well, the provided the facts- two pilots were caught attempting to fly drunk by a screener. Their blood alcohol was too high, and they were arrested. What's not to believe?"(B)a man is innocent until proved guilty"-Agreed, and there is no worse fate than being tried in the court of public opinion, but these gentlemen will recieve a trial from both the police and their employer, and will be dealt with accordingly. The threat of undue dismissal lawsuit will make sure of that.The discussion was based on the facts at the time. No one (I believe) said "They are 100% guilty with no doubt, send them to the cooler".Yeah... that's all.BTW, the police say on of the pilots has been arrested previously for beating his wife and some kind of drunken disturbance- he sounds like an alcoholic to me.As well, AWA has officially sacked them.

Peter.Please excuse the delay in getting back to your question,