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Frustrated and about to give up...

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I really find it hard to believe that ANYONE has this sim running without lockups. Briefly: I had lockup problems and got a brand new computer: AMD 1400 Thunderbird using a GeForce3 64, 256 RAM. I still had the same problems. Lockups while moving windows, lockups adjusting the radio stack, lockups in weather.I got another stick of RAM; up to 512. I've tried different video drivers, from 23.11, to 29.42...at least four. I've used utilities suggested by some very helpful people on this site to remove the old, clean the registry and install the new ones.I've used MBProbe to monitor the CPU temp and it seems to be around 106-112 F.; barely hot to the touch.I've searched the archives, gone to websites and read other posts. I might not have the ideal combination of video card chip and motherboard, but it's a moving target. You guys aren't using what you were 6 or 9 months ago. When I bought the GeForce 3, it was top-of-the-line. I can't believe I need a GeForce 4 and all of my problems will magically go away. C'mon.I must have restarted my system 40 times the other night doing a selective startup trying to find a .vxd or ghost app that was causing a conflict. And it seemed to run alright with nothing else loaded...no win.ini, no system.ini, but why should I have to do that? I've tweaked the .cfg file to max my swap file and there's 1.5 gig free.I just went to set up a nice IFR flight that I could fly often and while adjusting the radios, it locked up again.I just can't believe that anyone can load this game and fly it. And one shouldn't have to spend days...weeks messing around with it.What am I missing? Could my copy of FS2002 be lockup prone? That's hard to believe. It installed without a hitch, full load on my HD.Specs: Abit KG7-RAID AMD761 SOCKET A DDR Motherboard512 PC2100 DDR 266 MHz Non-Parity RAMGeForce3 64 mb Video card (23.11, 29.42, 21.83, OEM)Brand new CH Flight Sim USB yokeCreative SoundcardI'm asking for help, but am grasping at straws. I'm this close to just not believing that it runs lockup free on anyone's machine.

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Well I have sympathy for you but have to tell you that FS2K2 can run withouts any problems, I for instance run it everyday without a problem and that's with all the sliders set to max.So if we assume the program is not at fault you have to look at other parts of your system.Lockups or freezes in most instances can be related to memory problems, you don't say if your over clocking your card or CPU but if you are, you should drop them down to normal and start from there.Creative sound cards are renowned for causing IRQ conflicts, you may try moving your card to another slot to find a better IRQ combination.I don't know what OS your running but you should check DX settings and make sure you have all relevant patches.The Video drivers you mention are okay but the latest certified drivers on the nVidia site are better.So do you get these lock up with any other programs? have you run a burn in test with SIS Sandra or similar program? memory can be a big problem especially if it is only part bad, it works fine until loaded then bang.So good luck with your quest - however you'll have to remove the program as part of you problems as it does work fine.

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Hi, Rob, I don't know if you have considered the following, but maybe the problem is coming from some third-party addon or conflict?I would suggest the following to see if this is the case: Re-instate the original install copies of the following folder/file (after backing up the current ones):FS2002aircraft folderFS2002scenery.cfg fileThis will effectively and temporarily remove added sceneries and aircraft to allow you to zoom in on the problem.Hope this helps.

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make sure you have the lastest 4 n 1 drivers from via if you have a VIA chipset.Current is 4.40.I have run FS2002 since day one without a problem.I keep all my drivers current and make sure my register is clean.I also use windows update on a regular basis to make sure iam not missing any major updates.I hope this helps Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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Does the system ever lock-up on anything other than Direct-3D apps? or is FS2002 the only thing you run thats D3D? Does it ever lock-up on the desktop or while browsing, etc. If FS2002 is your only D3D app, try running something like 3DMARK2001se from madonion.com and see if that locks-up, too (I'm guessing it will).The KG-7 uses a via chipset. AMD-VIA-GeForce combos are notoriously difficult to get stable in 3D apps, but the two big culprits are:1) Go to viatech.com and download the latest 4-in-1 drivers. What you specifically need is the current viagart.vxd for your OS.2) This combo is extremely power sensitive. If you don't have at least a 300watt power supply, you haven't got a chance of it running stable.Also be sure your sound drivers are current.It CAN work! But it can certainly be frustrating. It took me several weeks to get my first Athlon system to settle down. Like you, there were times I thought the *#*&% thing would NEVER work. Try the newsgroup alt.comp.mainboards.abit - someone has probably had the same problems and already figured it out. I found the advice on usenet invaluable in getting my system stable.Good luck! :-beerchug

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Hi Rob,Since you have the same problem on two different computers, I'm going to take the road less traveled and suggest that your problem may actually be related to your copy of the software. If you cannot take it back to the point of purchase for a replacement, then perhaps a call to Microsoft will help. However, I do have to agree with one suggestion, which is to try and run the software without your Creative soundcard. There have been plenty of instances where MSFS problems were ultimately due to soundcard conflicts. Just take the card out and see how things go, you should be able to do without sound for a short period of time ;)

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Thanks for the suggestions. It gave me a number of avenues to go off and explore.Common sense would indicate that hundreds of thousands of users are running it with no problems. That's why it's so odd that I'd have similiar problems on two radically different systems. A Pentium II 400 and an AMD t-bird 1400 (running Windows ME, by the way).Thanks everyone.

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Soundblaster eh? Antoher thing to try then is to reduce sound hardware acceleration.In WinXP this is: Settings/Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices. Click the Audio tab, make sure the SB is set as Default Device and click Advanced. Select the Performance tab and then move the h/w acceleration slider one snap west.Give it a shot.../petern

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Another thing hun, and I'll probably get flamed for this, is get rid of Windows ME. Between both my brother and myself, we've only met one person who actually liked it when compared to Win98, and I believe his was strictly business oriented. Even the shop where my brother does all of his computer business would put it in ONLY if the customer insisted.I started with Win3.1, then 95, to 98, and now XP Pro. Of two people I know who who had ME for their OS, they had LOTS of problems when trying to run games on them.I hate to be accused of promoting Mr. Gates, but to give credit where credit is due, step up to XP, I highly doubt you'll regret it. At the very least, go back to 98; you can get that for next to nothing now."Okay Mr. Gates, I want my commission now."I think a lot of your problems will disappear when you do.Sincerely,Heather

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I run it almost everyday with hardly any problems on a Celeron 500mhz system with 512 Sdram and a PCI video card. I ran it last weekend for 12 hours straight flying on VATSIM with no problem. Not sure why you are having so many problems. Here I am in the lovely Debonair.

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I can say that I can run FS2002 with out any lockups. IMHO it can be several things 1. Bad MOBO2. Bad Ram3. Video driversI had problems with FS2k when I built my PC I tried new video drivers but FS would lock up either 5 minutes into the flight or an hour into it. It ended up being Hardware (MOBO and bad ram).John

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Hi,One of the last things people try and the thing that makes the most difference most of the time is your BIOS settings. Hit your BIOS and choose the "Fail Safe" settings if available, then leave your BIOS without tweaking individual settings. Try FS for a while and see if that fixed your crashes. If so, you can individually boost some settings in your BIOS until you find the culprit (or leave well enough alone, depending on your experience and patience).If I had to make an out-of-the-blue guess and based on what you've said you've already tried (drivers, etc), I'd say its FastWrites being enabled or your memory timings boosted too high. If you'd like more information on specific BIOS settings, this is a good guide:The Definitive BIOS Optimization Guide http://www.rojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz/BIOS_...Guide_Index.htmNote: The guide above is meant for those comfortable with their machines and with the skills to back out of machine lock-ups, etc. If you don't feel comfortable with that, simply choose one of the default optimizations available from your main BIOS screen.Good luck,http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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I will second Heather on that. Since getting Windows XP, zero trouubles. I haven't had a single system freeze or crash since XP. WinME is a piece of (*&%.Also - the other post about reducing your Hardware Acceleration on the sound card is on the mark. When I had Win ME, FS2002 would lock up all the time on switching views and opening stacks. When I took the acceleration down to half, that fixed it.

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Great advice from everyone here.... One other suggestion....if you can, see if you can try the app with a standard non-usb joystick--borrow one. See if there are any improvements in stability. I've heard of issues with some USB joysticks.I can't say I've never had a lockup--I got them sometimes when switching views, even though my IRQ's were unshared. My MB does have a nice feature--that of being able to force specific IRQ's for specific cards... I swapped my SBLive with the IRQ of another card, and the "view-switch" issue went away. The SBLive is one of the few cards I've run into that hates certain IRQ's, even if unshared. Due to FS's efforts to provide a stereo effect to aircraft sound, switching views does hit the soundcard IRQ....Regards,John

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Thanks to all for the input. I've removed the sound card and cleaned the registry. No luck. I've installed 4in1 from Via. No luck. I've posted and read the Abit newsgroup. No obvious solution yet.I'm thinking of buying a fresh copy of FS2002 and uninstalling/reinstalling. Perhaps it's the copy I have.Also, my basic first test after tweaking is to, while on the ground in the Mooney, start adjusting the NavCom. Freezes/locks up after I've been playing with the radios for less than a minute. Not even flying.I'll look into BIOS settings and think about biting the bullet and spending $150 for Windows XP Home.Just to fill in and answer some questions: this is the only game I play...the only 3D app. I'm a real pilot (300 hours - instrument rated) and not into other games that much. I just want FS to be something I can play with, use for training and such. I don't fly heavy iron...because I never will. I use the GA planes mostly.Thanks again for the posts.

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So far there's one thing I haven't seen anyone mention. Have you checked to see if your video card fan is operating? Have you tried running your computer with the case off and a floor fan blowing into it? If your video card (or anything else) is getting too hot and causing your computer to lockup, that should narrow the problem down quite a bit if the lockups stop. You mentioned upgrading from one computer to another... I just want to make sure of one thing. You didn't just swap the old hard drive out of the old computer and stick it in the new computer, did you? That's a mistake I used to see people do. I even did it once, myself. While doing that might (or might not) work, you are probably going to encounter numerous problems if you do.Which brings me to my final thoughts...Have you tried formatting your hard drive and putting a fresh OS on it? Then ONLY install the latest drivers and FS2002 and check to see if you still get the crashes. I wouldn't try this until you've already ruled out the overheating possibilities as stated above. And as others have mentioned, you should really think about ditching Windows ME. Get either Windows XP or Windows 2000 (my preference) and don't look back!

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Have you got networking installed? If so, are you connected during your game play? One of the "nicer" things about ME is that it periodically goes off and does a bunch of network broadcasts (looking for other hosts on the network.)Try this. If you are not using any networking, make sure that the IPX/NetBEUI protocol is not installed. That way, it wont be looking to see if any other hosts came online. If you dont have IPX loaded, but you are using TCP, make sure you are not connected. At a command prompt type "net stop tcp/ip" (I think thats it). This will stop networking but wont affect FS. Then try your game again.I've seen these types of probs before, and its almost always been network issues.Hope this helpsDave T

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1) I've heard other folks posting that Nvidia driver 28.32 is the most stable of all of them, it certainly is for me. I cannot get some sims to even run 5 minutes with any of a couple dozen other driver versions, but zip zero nada problemo with 28.32.2) Several messages way back on the FS2002 boards suggested that turning of AGP hardware acceleration in the Display tab of DXDIAG will give higher framerates, better textures, and fewer lockups. DXDIAG is in C:/Program Files/DirectX/Setup.3) Soundcard is a likely culprit, however. == WHK ==

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Rob,That really is bad news.To give you hope I have run FS2k FS2k2 on various AMD/Abit combinations without any lockups, nor have I had to resort to 'black magic' to cure any SoundBlaster problems so it is possible - at least with Win98SE.A doubt that a GF4 will cure your problems, I have run FS2k2 with a GF2MX200 & 400 and only recently upgraded to a GF3Ti200, none of them gace me lock-ups.I throw a couple of additional thoughts in, although I strongly suspect WinME although you don't say what OS was on the 'old' system.Get hold of 'dxcplv8.zip' (can't remember where I got my copy from).Install it and click on the icon in Control Panel, go to the sound page and you will probably find a 'debug' slider set, set the slider all the way to the left.Wisdom for FS2k, is to disable all shadowing in your BIOS, a setting I still use for FS2k2.One last thought although highly unlikely, have you checked to make sure it isn't a virus?Hope you get it sorted soon 'cos it will work.Rgds

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I tried the fan-on-floor trick (with the cover off, I'm not that stupid). No luck. I did not bring the old HD over. The old OS was Win98SE, but the RAM and cpu were the most likely suspects. Networking is installed in our home office and I'm anxious to see what happens with that disabled. Interesting tip.It's comforting to know people have used the Abit/AMD combination because changing my motherboard would be a drag.WinME isn't doing much for me...I may reformat and go back to Win98SE, switch to 28.32 drivers and see where I am. While that may work, I'm not very hopeful because I installed FS2002 first thing after booting the new machine about a month ago. I certainly wasn't using the best video drivers at the time, but still got lockups.The funny thing is it always seems one tweak, software download and install away. Like the lockups will go away with this driver, or that BIOS setting. Tantalizing.

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...and I'm assuming there's a simple "net(working) start" command? That would help, if you don't mind.For such a common (having been discussed to death) problem (and a newbie one) I appreciate everyones suggestions. Thanks.

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Happend to have the same probs. Turned out to be a utility called scroll++ giving problems. If you have any mouse utility installed or actief turn it off. In fact, your message indicate the lock-ups happens when you do someting with the mouse (except for the wheather lock-up). You also wrote:"And it seemed to run alright with nothing else loaded...no win.ini, no system.ini, but why should I have to do that?"So reading this correct there are no problems without those loaded?Then it must be a conflict somewhere IMO.Have you tried "ctrl alt del" onces and remove anything except explorer and systray?Good luck,Ronald

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I have used End-it-All and that didn't seem to help. Thanks.

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End-it-all won't catch everything, although your first post shows that you already checked VXD's, so it sounds like you have a good handle on the troubleshooting part. The disabling of AGP texturing in DX is a good tip--and also try turning off H/W T&L within FS2002 if that doesn't work. Sometimes I also have to wonder if a bad chip on the graphics card itself is the cause of some of the lockups.... I can't recall if you've tried another graphics card or not....

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>I really find it hard to believe that ANYONE has this sim >running without lockups. Briefly: I had lockup problems and >got a brand new computer: AMD 1400 Thunderbird using a >GeForce3 64, 256 RAM. I still had the same problems. Lockups >while moving windows, lockups adjusting the radio stack, >lockups in weather. I have a very similar system to yours. My setup includes an Abit KG7-RAID motherboard with 512 megs of Pc2100 DDR memory and a GF3 Ti-200 video card, along with a Creative Audigy soundcard. I also run FS2002 with a CH Flight Sim USB yoke.Are you using any other USB devices, such as a mouse, on your system? There are some documented problems with the Via chipset on the KG7 board, primarily in its ability to handle multiple USB devices. It appears it can become overwhelmed by an intensive device, such as a flight yoke, leading to problems.I ran into problems using my yoke and mouse at the same time. The mouse would continue to work, but the yoke lost its ability to respond.I was able to solve the problem by using the PS/2 port adapter that came with my Logitech optical mouse and plugging it into the PS/2 port on my computer, an Athlon XP 1900+ machine. The conflicts I was having went away and everything now works fine.So if you're using a USB mouse along with FS2002 you might try a PS/2 one and see if it helps any. Good luck, and keep us posted.

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