>To Fred,>>The plate is burning a hole in the binder just waiting for>SWA433 to make his return =P Why oh why is this butterfly>flying around in my room :)I am on my way back right now(1406 MST) to SAN. Someone needs to smack that butterfly down ;)

>Well FMC's can't be programmed for visual approaches, but I>know they are flown in the NG. Does this mean the pilots are>forbidden to fly circling approaches except in VMC? or just in>general.>A visual approach is flown manually. you may use the autopilot for speed/heading/altitude control, but you do NOT use the FMC.And you cannot fly a circling approach except in VMC since you are required to maintain visual contact with the airport while circling.What that means in real life is that you have to BREAK OUT of the IMC before reaching the circling altitude.And for what it's worth, some operators forbid circling altogether, and most forbid it at night.

G'Day everyone.Great shots :)Regarding the circling thing.. why are some airlines forbidden to do them? Safety?Cheers,Ryan

>G'Day everyone.>>Great shots :)>>Regarding the circling thing.. why are some airlines forbidden>to do them? Safety?>>Cheers,>RyanYes. You've got many tons of metal close to the ground, with one crew member focusing on keeping sight of the airport in crappy (1000 ft or less ceilings) weather, and no precision nav guidance. So most airlines have rather high minimums for circling during the day, if they do it at all.Now add darkness (and terrain) to the equation, and you have serious issues, which is why nearly everbody prohibits circling at night.Even in the little Caravan I fly sometimes, our ops manual prohibits us from night circling, and requires 1500 foot ceilings and 5 miles visibility for daylight circling. This means the approach only works when it's marginal VFR out and we break out of the clouds well above the pattern altitude.Some airports (Cumberland, MD) we are forbidden to circle, period, due to terrain. If we can't set up a normal visual approach to the runway and land on that runway, we don't land at all.

Statistically an aircraft has a 30x higher probability of a controlled flight into terrain(CFIT) accident if circling rather than a runway approach.I think thats maybe why all we seem to ever do in the sim(real) are engine out night circling approaches in 3-4km vis.Most of the ports we fly into in the Dash 8 have only recently been getting GPS NPA approaches which alllow us a runway approach.Night circling in poor vis is a real challenge to ALL pilots and throw in an engine out and you see two crew ops comes into its own.I have no idea how i ever did it single pilot in the King Air at night with no lights anywhere and not killing myself!!It really is the ultimate test,sadly one which every year many people fail and pay with their lives.Darren Howie

Ok. Thanks for the information guys.. much appreciated!Ryan