Hello, I know this is a little out of topic but I fly alot online and have to do the flight plan before I can fly. The only problem I have is with the stars, to get a star I need to know what the active arival runway is and that is where I am lost. any help would be great. some times I guess and could have used a different star to approach. is there any easy way to get this info to plan the rout. Thanks in advanceKen

There isn't, but however.....sometimes it happens that pilots change the ILS procedure in the descent. Or you could buy Activesky pro 2004 and you get the WX with TAF elements which gives you the WX for the next 24Houres.Good luck,

Hi Ken,Have you tried http://myairplane.com/?I think it might have everything you're looking for.Best RegardsBoone,[email protected]"Flying a plane is no different from riding a bicycle. It's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes."

Why do you need to know what the active runway is?STARs are designed such that you don't need to know what the runway, simply for this reason. If not all the time darn near. I never enter arrival runway information until I'm on the STAR and ATC tells me what direction we're landing and what runway to expect.

>Why do you need to know what the active runway is?>>STARs are designed such that you don't need to know what the>runway, simply for this reason. If not all the time darn near.>I never enter arrival runway information until I'm on the STAR>and ATC tells me what direction we're landing and what runway>to expect.??????????????????????It's quit the opposite!A STAR brings you from the airway towards the initial approach fix (IAF) where you will get vectors, or even, if needed (in case of no ATC) even up to the runway itself!Every runway has a specific STAR (which may be (partially) shared with other runways). If you don't know which runway you will land on (which is quit normal until you get close the the airfield and can listen to the ATIS or get the info from ATC) you cannot enter a STAR in the FMC.

>It's quit the opposite!>>A STAR brings you from the airway towards the initial approach>fix (IAF) where you will get vectors, or even, if needed (in>case of no ATC) even up to the runway itself!>>Every runway has a specific STAR (which may be (partially)>shared with other runways). If you don't know which runway you>will land on (which is quit normal until you get close the the>airfield and can listen to the ATIS or get the info from ATC)>you cannot enter a STAR in the FMC. Sorry my friend but you're incorrect there. Most airfield use a specific STAR for a given direction of approach (eg, arrivals to London Heathrow from the north will use the Bovingdon (BNN) STAR regardless of the runway in use). In most countries, the ATC agencies will publish a list of standard flightplans for use from one airport to another, in the UK this is called the SRD and is available here: www.ais.org.uk (free registration required), these standard flightplans usually include a STAR.You do not need to know the runway in use before you file a STAR as the landing runway often changes during your flight. Get the charts for the airport you're flying to and see which star lies closest to your direction of arrival. File that STAR in your flightplan and ATC will give you vectors from the last point in your STAR (at the latest) to the Final approach fix for the runway in use.

It is my understanding that each runway usually has an associated STAR that is normally used with " that" runway. So if I am approaching Ft Lauderdale and expecting to use a Star that works with 9L and and 15 miles out the wind now causes ATC to switch to 27R, I now have to probably use a different star. I always assume that the Star will be selected after ATC assigns the Active runway and associated approach. Is this not correct?

>It's quit the opposite!>>A STAR brings you from the airway towards the initial approach>fix (IAF) where you will get vectors, or even, if needed (in>case of no ATC) even up to the runway itself!>>Every runway has a specific STAR (which may be (partially)>shared with other runways). If you don't know which runway you>will land on (which is quit normal until you get close the the>airfield and can listen to the ATIS or get the info from ATC)>you cannot enter a STAR in the FMC. >>That is my problem, if I use FSNAV all stars are selected by departure runway (Sid) and landing runway (Star), the sid stars are incorporated into thoes runways. there could be two stars that take you within 1 or 2 VOR's of the other depending on runway selection.Ken

The STAR (and SID) are used to organize arriving and departing traffic to ensure the smooth and safe flow of traffic. They will take into account natural obstacles, prevailing winds, noise abatement, and the organization of the airspace as well as volume. Some STARs are specific to a runway (such as, you only have one runway), most aren't. It's the job of the approach controller to vector you in for finals. The STAR will get you in an arrival dump box through very specific arrival fixes (gates) at a defined altitude. It is true that some approaches are better for some runways than others, but STARs have to do with where you're coming from in relation to the airspace, not a specific runway.It can be confusing because when you program the FMC, you can not only specify a STAR, but also a specific runway. In this case, the FMC will place waypoints specific to a runway approach in your FP, but these specific waypoints are really not part of the approach procedure.Each runway can have specific approach for visual, radio nav (GPS) and the various categories for instrument approaches. These are in addition to the STARs, and are usually called terminal approach charts.For airports in the US, the FAA has a good list of current digital approach/departure plates in PDF form, including terminal approach charts and airport layouts at this NACO web site:http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tppHope this helps.

Etienne, you have it spot on.

Actually, you're all correct, for some geography. This thread highlights a difference in procedure design between the US/Canada and Europe. In the North America, most DPs and STARs are NOT runway specific and thus you don't need to know the arrival runway.In Europe, most DPs and STARs ARE runway specific so you need to know the assigned runway. In most cases in Europe, the STAR won't be filed as part of the flight plan. In fact, in some cases, the instructions to pilots/handlers are specific in that such procedures may not be filed as part of the flight plan. They are then assigned by ATC as you approach the destination terminal area.cz

Here's my two penneth worth on the subject and please correct my mistakes. If I'm flying from say Manchester (EGCC) to Heathrow (EGLL) I would probably take the following route: EGCC, HON BNN2A, obviously with a suitable SID at the start. Therefore I would use the STARs via Bivington chart to get me to a point in space for arrival at Heathrow. At that point, when I arrive at BNN I'm not runway specific. Now in real life I imagine I would be vectored from here by ATC, but if I wanted to (and ATC let me) do it all by chart I believe I would use an "Instrument approach chart/plate" for the appropriate runway. Maybe I missing something, but are people confusing STARs with approach plates as one is runway specific and the other is not as far as I can see/know. This appears to apply both in the US and UK.Please could someone confirm or deny this thinking as it could be back to the drawing board if I'm wrong.

>The STAR (and SID) are used to organize arriving and>departing traffic to ensure the smooth and safe flow of>traffic. They will take into account natural obstacles,>prevailing winds, noise abatement, and the organization of the>airspace as well as volume. Ok, so if I am filing a flight plan lets say from and use the following path, KMCO (sid) SAV J207 FLO J55 TUBAS J51 FAK (STAR) KPHL, What would be the easest way to find the SID/STAR for this route, I do go to MyAirplane.com and Approach Plates but there are alot to choose from, unless I eather open each one up and see if one of my VOR's or Intersection are listed it is not easy well at least for me, I use RouteFinder to get the route. of corse it took me a long time to learn Alt. to direction of flight:-lol Ken

Some of the flight planners like FSbuild2 have canned flight plans which are the prefered routes. I know that on the FSbuild site there are all the flight plans that Southwest uses. The old fashioned way is to throw out all the DPs and STARs that are not for your aircraft type. Next you do just check the STARs against the Enroute chart. Doesn't take all that long. With some practice you can figure it out faster than it takes to work the load manager and the fueling.Come on folks, you guys complain if all the switches including the ones which dispense toilet paper don't work but to do a bit of work to figure out which STAR is the right one is too much effort? Bob K.

In this case you are correct, But some STAR's are indeed specific for a runway, and the route for the STAR route would bring the flight to the Approach (or IAF) without ATC vectors. These type of Star's are more prevalent in Europe, and Asia.RegardsErnie.