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dima767

My first full motion NG sim session!

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Hey guys and gals. I just want to share my wonderfull experience in the full motion 737 NG simulator I had yesterday!All I can say is WOW!!!!! What an adrenaline rush when you sit behid the controls of this bird! Well, first of all, thanks to wonderful product form PMDG, I felt "right at home". What a great feeling when (almost) everything looks familiar and you know what to do, you go through the checklists, set up the overhead, FMC, flight instruments, etc.!I must say, _THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE_ from the PMDG bird (or any PC-based flight simulation for that matter) is the physics of the flight and the feeling. I mean despite relatively sophisticated flight dynamics engine in the PC simulator, there is no way in the world you could compare it to "the real thing". You simply can't feel the bird on the PC - period.It took me a couple of circuts to get used to it a little bit. One big thing is to properly trim the aircraft. Once it's in trim it feels (to me at least) a little bit more stable. And actually you have to apply quite a bit of pressure on the yoke as it feels "very heavy". And also it is very pitch-sensitive and feels unstable. Is it like this on the real bird?Also, during landing the bird had a tendency to roll wings back and forth and during my first landing I almost flipped her upside down, but managed to put her down (hard) and safely stop and the far end of the runway! (the instructor was very impressed)Also, during take off (no winds) it always had a tendency to roll wings after the initial rotation so I had to do some extensive lateral yoke movements to keep her climbing straight forward.Again, real NG drivers - any comments?So, to summarize, this is the greatest experience I've had in the long time and the PMDG team created a brilliant 737NG product (like noone knows that) :-)Cheers,Dmitriy.

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Thanks for sharing, Dmitriy. I really would like to do this now myself. Have you flown any other aircraft RW? How did you get access to a 737-NG Simulator?- Neeraj.

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There is a company on the West coast (Long Beach, CA) called Alteon training (a Boeing company) which advertised the sim rides for civilians for $150 an hour. For starters I booked 2 unforgetable hours. For some reason their web site is down today, so I can't provide you with a link.I've actually mentioned the PMDG and they said that folks form the PMDG team were there, taking pictures, sound recordings, etc. in the MD11 sim. for the upcomming MD11 package!Dmitriy.

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... and the only RW flight time I had is few hours on the 172. It's not my thing - I like "the big iron" ;-)Dmitriy.

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Dmitriy,Hope your sim instructor wasn't on a "power trip" or just having a "bad day" when he/she setup landing winds and or wind shear on final!I did most of our training for my type rating (737-300) in the same sim, and the first ride they let us "fly" the thing in normal (no wind, std pressure, no failures, etc) just to get used to it.Yes, MSFS cannot model the exact flight perf, (slugish roll commands at VREF) but you have the feel of what the "real" plane would feel like. (Pretty close to the real thing, but not quite....)But I'm sure PMDG will be able to model this too!!!!!!!Cheers,Gerry

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Gerry,now that I think about it, there was a constant crosswind of 20 knots programmed for the duration of the session for both take offs and landings (we were doing circuts to 24R at LAX) May be that could explain the roll movements?Dmitriy.

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Well, yeah, I guess so :-) Next time I'll be more "agressive" and ask for "winds calm" ;-)Dmitriy.

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He also did an engine failure at V1 on me (as a surprise), but then he helped me with a rudder and I was able to climb out and then did a single engine visual approach (with a 20kt crosswind)! Even though it was a rough landing, but we landed in one piece, nevertheless!Dmitriy.

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You bet I will go there on my next trip. My question to you: anyone can walk in there and pay and get full-motion NG Sim? Did they check your ID?- Neeraj

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To be honest with you, they didn't even check my ID, even though I brought my US passport with me. That surprised me a lot...They also have a full range of sims available: MD11, 777, MD80, 717, 747-400, 737-200 (classic), so one could choose.Dmitriy.

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I am still uncomfortable with the security issues. We are not handeling it right as a nation .... *sigh* anyway. Nothing meant to you .. Dmitriy, but shouldn't we be checking?

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>There is a company on the West coast (Long Beach, CA) called>Alteon training (a Boeing company) which advertised the sim>rides for civilians for $150 an hour. For starters I booked 2>unforgetable hours. For some reason their web site is down>today, so I can't provide you with a link.>>I've actually mentioned the PMDG and they said that folks form>the PMDG team were there, taking pictures, sound recordings,>etc. in the MD11 sim. for the upcomming MD11 package!>>Dmitriy.check this sitehttp://www.alteontraining.com/Best RegardsYves lefevre

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>I am still uncomfortable with the security issues. We are not>handeling it right as a nation .... *sigh* anyway. Nothing>meant to you .. Dmitriy, but shouldn't we be checking?I know that simulators have been somewhat of a "hotbutton" issue since 9/11. With all due respect, however, I would suggest that the issue of strict background checks for civilian sim rides like this one, is more of an emotion-based overreaction than a serious security measure. As a commercial product, there is nothing secret about the operational details of an airliner. Moreover, training facilities such as the one mentioned above, exist all over the world. I would consider the security at airports to be a far more important concern.Keep in mind that these training centers are private facilities. They are not government institutions. Thus, I suspect that any ID checks that do occur are at the discretion of the owner of the facility. Perhaps I have missed something, but I am not aware of any specific legal requirements requireing ID chekcs for the use of professional flight simulators. Andrew

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Bill,honestly, I forgot his name (a lot of things went through my mind that day) :-) The gentelmen's name who arranged it for me is Mike Calcagno.Dmitriy.

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>I know that simulators have been somewhat of a "hotbutton">issue since 9/11. With all due respect, however, I would>suggest that the issue of strict background checks for>civilian sim rides like this one, is more of an emotion-based>overreaction than a serious security measure. As a commercial>product, there is nothing secret about the operational details>of an airliner. Moreover, training facilities such as the one>mentioned above, exist all over the world. I would consider>the security at airports to be a far more important concern.Agreed. Airport security (commercial and GA) is more important, and there is more work to do there. A full background check maybe an emotional overreaction, but I do think it's our social responsibility to do at least the basic things like checking ID. >Keep in mind that these training centers are private>facilities. They are not government institutions. Thus, I>suspect that any ID checks that do occur are at the discretion>of the owner of the facility. Perhaps I have missed>something, but I am not aware of any specific legal>requirements requireing ID chekcs for the use of professional>flight simulators. Have you heard about the "Alien Flight Training" Rule? It requires aliens (including Green Card holders) seeking flight instruction to register with the DoHS and submit to a background check. In addition, Flight Instructors who intend to give instruction to aliens also need to register, and keep id documentation of the student for five years. (I personally do not like the word "alien" but that's what the INS and DoHS call it.)Given the fact that full motion sims are treated by FAA and the airlines "almost like the real thing" to practice procedures and emergencies, I would say at least some level of checks should be implemented.I smell a lock coming on this thread ... I did not want to write so much, but I had to.

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I had a long session in a 738 level-D simulator a few months ago, and I started writing a very detailed report for you guys, it went about 10 pages, but then i thought who cares to read this... Now I can still finish it if anybody wants to see it.Vala

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I wouldn't mind having a read, it'll stir up some memories of my only level D expirence i had 5 years ago at the BA heathrow training center

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Heck yeah I'd love to see that report -- even if it is 10 pages.Myself . . . it may not be the NG, but I am thinking of going to the weekend class sponsored by Continental in Houston . . . http://www.b737.com:-)<<<<>>>> To correct URL spelling -- I forgot the "b".

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You lucky devil. I have only flown on A300B4-200 and B747-200 full motion simulator. So far I havent flown any digital systems equipped aircraft yet. The only digital on those sims that I have flown on is the TCAS just like the concorde.I hope the first one i get to try is the A330 or A380 in the full motion simulator. I would love the taste of that AUTO THROTTLE systme and FBW techology that the B747-400 or any other BOEING is lacking besides the B777. Yes the full motion simulator is nice with the hyd jacks that gives us the full sensation of flight but I guess we would have to be happy with what ever product PMDG gives us. In the real sim, you do not trim the aircraft with your key board of arm the A/T with ur mouse, etc. Regards,Melissa

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Hey Dmitriy,It's funny that you managed to get ride in an Alteon training 737 sim recently too - I was in Brisbane on Tuesday with a friend who works for Virgin Blue to sit in on his sim ride.I logged on to the forums that night to post my experience and found your report - might wait a week or so now - don't want to steal your glory! :(Keep your eyes peeled for it. I have some low-res video if anyone would like to host it too.

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Victor,I believe that after 9/11, United discontinued their "Pilot for a day" program.Dmitriy.

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