Need help flaring please

[michal 44]

>want the plane to control left-right navigation while doing an>ILS landing and where you want to control the up-down movement>(glideslope) yourself? LOC button gives you an option to track LOC signal only (left, right) but your autopilot normally would still be engaged in some vertical mode like ALT or VNAV. On a real 744 I don't think it is possible to steer airplane manually in the vertical mode while autopilot is engaged in a horizontal mode. It is not a very desirable arrangement anyway.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

[Qavion 19]

"2) What exactly do I do when the plane autolands and touches down? I tried engaging thrust reversers but they didn't seem to engage at first presumably because A/T was on. Do I switch of the A/T as soon as the back wheels touch the runway and start thrust reversing?"Paul...Deploying the reversers disengages the A/T automatically. It is a soft disengage (no warnings in the cockpit). If you can't deploy your reversers, then you have another problem. Perhaps your thrust isn't at idle or you have Nacelle Anti-Ice switched on... known sim problems (see previous messages)If you move the flaps into a takeoff position, your A/T will rearm, ready for takeoff."4) Is there a better way to read the ILS on a manual landing? What I mean is, all that the ILS seems to be showing the pilot is an arrow pointing left or right and up or down on the PFD. It doesn't really tell you HOW MUCH to turn left or right or HOW MUCH to climb or descend, unless I'm missing something. "The F/D (Flight Director) should tell you how much to turn. The Up/Down and Left/Right indication is simply raw data (for crosschecking, cues for flap/gear deployment, etc).Cheers.Q>

[Check_Airman 3]

>>The F/D (Flight Director) should tell you how much to turn.>The Up/Down and Left/Right indication is simply raw data (for>crosschecking, cues for flap/gear deployment, etc).>IFF the AFDS is in APP mode!!

[Guest andyman]

Once i got the hang of the 747 flare it has become the easiet to land with the highest rate for "greasers".the NG has become my most difficult plane to land.

[Guest D17S]

TRANS(-itions): As you come into a terminal area, busy airports need to keep airplanes on

[Guest JTH]

Ok just to revive this topic I have been practicing a lot during the last few weeks and, with all the help I've received, I've improved a lot.Sam, you mentioned that during a manual landing I should basically use the throttles, not the yoke, to control the rate of descent right? Well the problem I'm having is that whenever I disconnect the A/P, the plane immediately takes a steep fall downwards and I have to pull back hard on the yoke to regulate it. From then on, I find that I cannot let go of the yoke or the plane will fall again. I try to set the engines to the thrust the A/T had them at before I disconnected it and the A/P (using the engine's N1 readings) but I still basically seem to fly the approach using the yoke. Is this wrong? I'm finding it very hard to imagine flying the approach without pulling back/pushing forward on the yoke at all but if that's how it's done in real life I'll keep trying!!Thanks once again everyone for your continued help. Like I said a lot learned, more to learn!

[lbarber 20]

>I use the V/S indicator as a kinda

[Qavion 19]

"Well the problem I'm having is that whenever I disconnect the A/P, the plane immediately takes a steep fall downwards and I have to pull back hard on the yoke to regulate it. From then on, I find that I cannot let go of the yoke or the plane will fall again."This can be caused by two things... Your joystick is not calibrated properly... or you haven't learnt how to use your manual Stabilizer Trim switches(?). Pull the yoke back to stay on the glidepath and at the same time trim the nose of the aircraft upwards.If you have a joystick with some spare switches, programme these for nose up/nose down trim. MSFS calls Stabilizer Trim "Elevator Trim" or something similar. If your joystick has two spare buttons, one on top of the other, programme the buttons so that the top button pushes the nose down. If you look at your Stab Trim Indicator next to the Thrust Levers, the indicator should be moving forward (towards zero) for "nose down".Note that stab trim runs fairly slowly. Have patience! :)Hope this helps.Cheers.Q>

[cowpatz 244]

Paul,Using thrust to control rate of descent and pitch to control speed is OK for flying light aircraft but is NOT correct for flying jets. In a jet it is the other way around. Using auto throttle on a manual approach is permitted as long as it is disengaged before the flare or if on a non precision approach before the Missed approach point.Use the flight director but "look through it". It is pretty good but it does take a little time to react to changes. Keep scanning other instruments ie. VSI as a crosscheck. 1/2 your groundspeed x 10 gives a close enough rate of descent to aim for on a 3 degree slope.I suggest when you manually fly that you leave the A/T's engaged and concentrate on slight movements of the joystick to control roll and pitch to centre the Flight director bars. Any wild ocillations in pitch will cause the A/T's to apply or retard thrust and because of the pitching moment of the engines (power on - nose up, power off - nose down) will make the approach difficult to fly. Also remember that from around 200 ft the aircraft will start entering ground effect (a cushion of air forming between the wing and the ground for want of a better description. This will want to "push" the aircraft above the G/S.At about 100 to 50 ft disengage the AT, 30 ft Start closing the thrust levers, 20 to 10 ft (depending on weight. Heavier= higher) raise the nose gently 2 to 3 degrees while looking at the far end of the runway (gives a better perspective)and gently hold off. Afetr touch down fly the nosewheel gently onto the runway and at the same time select reverse thrust.You will find that during an autoland the flare is commenced quite high (50 to 40 ft) but it works very well, just like the real aircraft.Hey Sam good description of approach and Star transitions. We need a file somewhere to keep all this good gen.CheersSteve

[Guest D17S]

Setting yourself up with stab trim control on your J-stick is a good idea. Any time I'm just out flying around without the AP, I'm constantly trimming away. About the approach, though. The real trick is to setup a good practice run. I have a couple practice approached set up that I can just replay. Try to find a 20 mile final you can practice with. Use the AP to get established on-speed at Vref, capture both LOC and GS. Get the Flaps/gear out. Get the airplane completely configured for landing. Initially let the AP handle all these "upsets." The AP is working to keep things flying along as you are setting up. It is also adjusting the stabilizer trim for whatever is going on. It's called Auto Stab trim. You don't have to do anything. It just works. Once you are all slowed down with everything's out (fully configured), you have LOC and GS captured, save the flight. Try to have this as far out as possible so you can have the longest possible final approach 'practice time.' The save function is a bit glitchy. You will have to reset stuff when you re-load this saved slight. You will need some time to get things back to where you saved this flight. (Note: This is not a set up for a real approach, yet. The airplane would still be at 180-220 at the IP and flaps/gear would not be configured for landing yet. For any critical purists, please understand. This is a practice flight. We are learning how to control this airplane in a stable approach.) Now, disengage the AT first. Find the existing thrust level with your throttle. OK, waggle your shoulders and shake those hands out (hey, works for me!) Here we go. Disengage the AP. Ok captain, it's all yours. The auto-stab trim will have the airplane pre-trimmed. When you disengage the AP, the airplane will just sit there. If you are getting some kind of attitude event here, check your control

[Guest D17S]

I'd never even seen it before. The MD11 has one I couldn't get anyone to admit to it. Now where do keep it during approach. Looks like it could be magic.

[cowpatz 244]

Sam why are you advising incorrect jet handling procedures? Thrust is for airspeed and pitch for ROD. If you are going for an accurate simulation of real world practices then this is fundamental. Take a look at how how the auto flight system reproduces this and how it is set up to do so. It is fundamental to the operation of a jet.I know you are offering your considerable experience in sim handling but at the end of the day in real practice this is not right. I guess at the end of the day it depends upon what the simmer wants. For me it is the most accurate reproduction possible and the only way to do this is with correct real world procedures.Also when on the LOC and approaching minimums it can be difficult to stay on the LOC. Try using a little rudder to skid the aircraft gently back onto it. I have a joystick that allows me to twist it for rudder and it works a treat.CheersSteve

[Guest D17S]

Is this right or not? Makes sense with what I've been told, but frankly, I don't have a personal clue. I have never been closer to a control column on approach than that center seat . . . . or closer to any real live flight crew than for a 'turn around chat' about . . . pretty much centers on real estate these days! Of course while I'm there, you might imagine I'm pretty courious about what they're doing and why they are doin' it. I think they sometimes get so tired of each other, it's just a joy to have some different human being along for the ride. Hard to simulate that -F human dimension even with that new . . . -F. Oh, but I do have some claim to fame. I did fly the MD11 sim. Flight directed approach OK with all three and then a 2 engine approach and landing. Greased 'em (Well, we all walked away . . for lunch that is). Then he shut down 2. A one engine landing? Crashed and burned . . . and there you have it. The Boeing instructor seemed to like that thrust>rate/pitch >speed thing. Heck, I don't know.