Steve Bell and I are working out some detailed fuel plans and were wondering- in real world planning, with current fuel costs, have there been any changes to the 12T/9T minimum fuel figures?There have been rumors that the trans-atlantic minimums have dropped.....Q and any other real world operators, please chime in!Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

Hi,Just a simmer here but curious about the remaining fuel planning.Can you elaborate more about the 12T/9T that you mention? What are you using for Intl. flights?Thanks,Gil B.

United still uses 21.4 for international flights, except for - Sydney (SYD/YSSY) which is 24.8- Saigon (SGN/VVTS) which is 36.4Any of the airports listed as "Two Hour Rule" airports (14 CFR 121.645 OTMH) need the two hours of fuel, which is ~28,000lb.Sydney also falls into this category, we can either do three things with Sydney (in descending order of less favorable).- Six hour rule, or if we cant use that- List an alternate (usually Williamstown AFB), or if we cant list one- Two hour ruleOn flights covered by Domestic FARs we use standard FAR 45 Min. reserve + 15 min extra (optional) - no set value.The figure of 21.4 is set as one hour of holding endurance, or enough to hold for the thirty minutes required by the FAR then still have a canned figure left to go to a close airport (note the difference between "close" and "alternate" - not legally the same)FAR 30 min rsv on the 747 is 8,800lb, take that out and you are left with 12,600lbs of fuel to play with.The methodology behind the minimum arrival value is to protect a flight when we use the six hour no alternate rule in case something horrible happens, like an airport closure - it is not for weather related stuff, thats what an offical "weather altnerate" is for, as defined by the FAR.That is why the values for Saigon and some other places are different, there is no "close" airport. The FAA says Sydney has no avaliable alternates (same for Honolulu -- dont ask me how they got that one) but there is nowhere in the UA system that I can think of where no close airport exists in the event of a really horrible situation where we can't use the destination and have used the 6 hour no alternate rule except Saigon or Kuwait. In these cases, the min fuel over dest is higher.I think the Europeans vary in thier methods, where you HAVE to list an alternate. Whether better or not is open to debate.I would be interested to hear what Q has to say, as I believe QANTAS has a simmilar policy - or so I read a few years ago.

Ben:Thank you so very much for that detailed response. That's exactly the sort of information I was hoping to elicit. I too am looking forward to Q's response......many thanks again!Carl Avari-CooperBAW0225

Q and other RW operators..............please.........Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

Q is on holidays... BTW, he only fixes 'em, not flys 'em ;)

Have a super holiday Q- yes, I am aware of your maintenance status- but who knows the a/c better? Surely not the pilots you allow to fly YOUR airplane?Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

Just a bump to get onto the front page, in case one of our RW operators stop by..........thanks!Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

Helloi m not dispatching 744 but in Canada the CAR (FAA equivalent) didnt changes with fuel increase.for now we re on safety side.hope it will remain the same.see youPhil P.

Thanks Phil.......we appreciate the input......hopefully there are a few other RW operators with time enough to post.....Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png