Flightsim.com charging a "membership" fee is quite different from what these guys in Argentina are doing. Flightsim.com does not make their membership to download mandatory (one can freely download from the site at no charge), unlike sites like airindigo.net (another pirating endeavor). And Flightsim.com does not poach files from other sites. Fsclub is clearly violating international law in two indisputable ways: First, they are charging for access to files against the express wishes of most if not all the authors. Second, they are using files without first seeking and then receiving the permission of the authors.The major difference between Flightsim.com and the pirates is that Nels is not using authors' files without their permission. Authors freely upload their files to Flightsim.com day in and day out. I can understand how some people are put-off by flightsim.com's membership fees. But if you are an author and don't agree with this, then simply stop uploading your creations to that site. Trust me, Nel's won't steal your creations... unlike so many of the crooks that pollute this hobby.Now, the only challenge as another poster pointed out is to get the Argentine government to act. Of course another, somewhat more reputable (hopefully) government will be looking into what's happening in Las Vegas.Regards,

>Hmmm, charging people for freeware. Hasn't flightsim.com >been doing that for a while. "All nodes are busy..." >(Whatever that means...) >>Flame me if you want, but its the truth. I do realize its >expensive to run a site, but avsim manages to stay free and >Flightsim runs a heck of a lot of ads. I would not be >surprised if the site turns a profit just like these guys >plan to do with their CD's. >>Anyway, time for bed... >mbOk,I'll flame you cause because its bull. What does "all nodes are busy" mean. Well er...all the nodes to get into fs.com are busy!! FS.com has over 15,000 members and a load of them are all trying to get in at the same time. Give AVSIM a few more years of growth and you might possibly see the same thing here.Freeware files are uploaded to fs.com and Avsim by the author of his own free will,their not plundered and stolen like this fsclub is doing so your comparision is ridiculous.BTW,it would upset you if Nels made a profit on his site? Would you be bothered if Tom did the same? Hey pal,why don't you start up a fs site,spend thousands on equipment and bandwith fees and then we can all express our outrage at you if you end up with a couple of bucks profit in your pocket. I just love how some of these guys demand that Fs.com and Avsim to always be here for FREE for their pleasure. Well I'm off to give Dell $3,000 for a new computer and Gates $75.00 for the sim but I demand that these fs web sites should always be free!! Shesshhh.....David

You beat me to it ... and hit the nailon the head. If someone were to try to make freeware available to those without internetand ASK the authors I bet many would agreeif only a honest profit for time and expenseeswere made. These guys are outside the communityfor sure. Kevin

From Wichita:<"Ok,I'll flame you cause because its bull.">And now let's move on to the more relevant issue: FSclub.comRegards,

hello,Even if someone were to buy a cd or all 3 the chances of you receiving the cds are slim to none if the cds were sent from anywhere in South America. Thats the truth my folks have tried to send even just letters to relatives that live over there and most of the time it doesent get there.Andrew:-wave

David, don't waste you breath! These guys come crawling out of their holes whenever FS.com is mentioned. They could care less whether their arguements make any sense!I donate $ to both Flightsim.com and Avsim.com, Neither one Forces me to donate! Flightsim.com chooses to give me a little extra for my donation and I appreciate it. I actually enjoy both sites!http://members.cox.net/pstepanoff/images/OK_c2.gifPete S

>Is it just me, or does that site look a LOT like Carenado's? >>Strikingly similar, I might add. So similar I'd venture a >guess that they're somehow related. >>Wouldn't surprise me too much... Funny! I had the same impression.

i think both avsim and flightsim.com are great sites. but i have uploaded many x-plane aircrafts to flightisim.com, in fact if you use x-plane probably you are flying one of my designs, all this aircraft are free and i am not interested in money. the problem is when i try to login to flightsim.com is almost impossible, so finally just a very select group is able to download my files from flightsim.com, those who paid, this is not very right, i think.If you want preferent access, and you pay for it, this is ok, but it's unacceptable you restrict totally (or almost)the access to the rest.

Feel free to check the stats yourself. You will see that AVSIM and FS.Com both use similar amounts of bandwidth for file downloads; indeed AVSIM occasionally pushes more bandwidth than FS.Com per day!--M

Tried to email a complaint, it was rejected. Anyone else have this problem.Mitch

David,Again... AVSIM is at the same level of growth as FS.Com. Check our Library Stats and compare with the like stats Nels provides on his site.The numbers speak far more clearly than any rhetoric I could possibly deliver. :-)--M

I "crawled out of my hole" to simply make the following point: IF FS.com is turning a profit by charging users access to freeware then I dont see much of a difference between them and these guys selling freeware CD's. If they are simply covering costs then I dont have much of a problem with it. As I said before, I DO realize the expense that goes into such a site. If they can generate revenue and a profit through banner ads etc., good for them, that is an entirely different issue and at least access to files is not hindered. Using FS.com as it stands for "free" is very difficult/almost impossible and the site is almost useless (slow downloads, limited "nodes" etc.). Thats my opinion...mb505

Exactly how many times do you have to be beaten over the head!!??? Flightsim.com does NOT charge for access to freeware files........let me say that again.......Flightsim.com does NOT charge access to freeware files.........What they do OFFER, is a First Class membership, which allows you access to thier site first, over the THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE logging on for FREE!If you don't want to pay for the membership, you still have access to EVERY SINGLE FILE that someone that has paid for the membership. It is just a matter of how easy it is to log on.

PackHorse, I guess you did not read my post. Try again. Have you tried logging on as a "free member" lately? Its like joining a contest that claims "no purchase necessary". Free access is worthless if you cant gain access (duh).

Funny, mb505, I have few problems logging into FS.com. Sometimes I have to press the F5 key a few times, but I always get in within a minute or two. And no charge.Gnats, gnats, gnats everywhere.Regards,