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Guest Lobaeux4

128 scared PAX due to a bad POSKY-PIC merge? or midair?

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Guest Lobaeux4

Enroute from KLAX to KIAH, FL350, autopilot is flying the plane just fine. The beautiful stewardess (my wife of course) sitting in the cockpit with me, downloading songs to her laptop, and a nice glass of cranberry juice (in preparation for a Lortab) notices a streak of white flash by the left window. Now, like everyone else (or maybe not) I hand-flew the a/c up to altitude, set the autopilot, started talking to center and then when they hand me off to the next center I just don't contact and then I can do other things. I think this time it bit me in the butt. After the streak of white, the plane entered into a left hand spiral, I lost close to 6000 feet before I hit the all-powerful 'P' and then went to look at the instant replay. It showed a streak of white, like contrail, but no aircraft. I know aircraft don't show up in instant replay, so I'm figuring I had a midair. Lost about a good 8000 feet before I could recover the aircraft, disengage the trim, and get this beast under control. I then contacted Alburqurque Center, cancelled IFR, looked for a close airport, punched in KMAF (Midland Intl) into the FMC, contact tower, (declared emergency) and flew a visual to 16R, pulled off the runway and emergency egressed. I wish I had taken screenshots with FSScreen, but I didn't.My real question is, could there be a problem merging these two. I know there is a slight difference since PIC was modeled on the -300 and I was flying the -200. Right after takeoff, the autopilot suddenly nosedived us, I disconnected left autopilot, recovered, and set autopilot on center, thinking it was just a malfunction. I've got malfunctions set to 5 a month. But I'm sure it was a midair. I never heard ATC call me out to opposing traffic though. Any ideas?JoeAMD 1700 o'clkd 1800512 DDR RAMGeForce 3 Ti 20040 GB 7,200 HDWin XP14" Monitor!!

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Guest Lobaeux4

Oh, I forgot to say how I merged these two. I copied all the data from the WILCO .cfg from description on down. Then I pasted into my POSKY Continental .cfg over the info that was there. I then copied the WILCO .air file, renamed the POSKY with a .bak and then renamed the WILCO .air file the previously named POSKY .air file. Anyone think this will work?Thanks,Joe

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>Intl) into the FMC, contact tower, (declared emergency) and How do you 'declare an emergency' in fs2002????? or are your taking about VATSIM?

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Guest Lobaeux4

LOL, I just told my wife I was declaring an emergency. There isn't any way to do it in FS2K2.Joe

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Guest ilh

The technique you used to merge sounds like it is probably OK. I started with Wilco's .cfg and made minimal adjustments, mostly to the gear, lighting, and eyepoint to make it consistent with the POSKY visual model. This way I was sure to have maximal PIC flight dynamics. However, your technique sounds comparable.Besides, the problem you had sounds so sudden that I cannot see how merging could have caused it.Email me if you would like to try my merge for comparison.Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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Sounds very interesting , however I wonder really how many 767 flights are really "hand flown " to altitude.. If you mean hand setting the auto-pilot for HDG to intercept and Altitude and not just setting the Lnav and Vnav I can see what you mean.

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Guest Lobaeux4

No, no, just like in the C-130, I hand-fly, no autopilot, just pitch and power, up to altitude, usually 15000 ft like in the POSKY manual, but sometimes up to cruise altitude (works if you're using MS ATC, since they clear you to cruise altitude no matter what), trim off, then set autopilot. If you have the plane trimmed properly, it's easy to run checklists and such while flying. I had to hand fly it down after my recovery on the flight from KLAX to KIAH, after I got it trimmed up it flew great. It's a great flying bird. I wasn't about to trust the autopilot, not after the squirrely setting after takeoff. The only reason I put the autopilot on right after takeoff was so I could help my wife with her laptop. Normally it's hand-fly the takeoff up to altitude, then hand fly after localiser capture or once runway in sight (if doing the visual).Joe

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Depends on the individual, but I like to hand fly (hands on yoke)to at least the low 20's. Usually, by that time, the press of duties in a busy area with a 2 man crew makes the autopilot desireable, although occasionally going all the way to cruise can be done, and is good practice against the day when you may be dispatched with an A/P inop.

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Joe, this problem sounds familiar to me:This weekend I did about 10 flights with the POSKY-PIC(767-300ER) merge bei Lee H (I am not blaming the problem on Lee - it's just to be detailed ;) ). This is what I did and what happened:1) Fresh start of FS20022) Load previously saved flight that uses POSKY-PIC V3.0 LH merge (s.above - not blaming on Lee...).3) Load the 767PIC-provided cold-and-dark panel setups to make sure nothing is messed up...4) Setup everything to takeoff config, in particular: a) FD to TO-Mode :( SPD-Hold to 180kt c) Heading sel. to 263 (EDDM Rw 26R) d) ALT sel. to FL200.5) Get taxi and takeoff clearance (FS2002) and takeoff.6) @ 500ft gear up, acc to 180kt, flap 5.7) Engage autopilot in FD-Takeoff mode (press 'z' only), everything !seems! to be fine...Now here it comes:8) ATC cleares me to FL200, right turn heading 330. Thus setting Heading sel. to 330 and making sure heading sel. is activated on prim. flight. displ.: ok everything !seems! to be fine...9) Noticed: Autopilot did neigther move aileron nor elevator... strange because we had light turbulences...10) All over sudden, the aircraft rolled over right (way way over 45

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Guest ilh

You are saying that AP CMD does nothing (ever) with PIC/POSKY but does with the original Wilco? Very strange. Perhaps your aircraft.cfg is corrupted in some way.Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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....no, all I reported was what I experienced last weekend.However: That behaviour was totally unknown to me before.Before I was flying the original 767PIC and after that I have been using the PIC-POSKY (your merge) pretty much for traffic patterns only. Thus I did hand flying w/o AP. I think (!) that I did use the AP with the PIC-POSKY-merge before - however I cannot say that for sure.Maybe my aircraft.cfg-file is actually corrupted as you said, however it could be due to the issue Wade pointed out in topic#396 "A note about aircraft.cfg and AIR file interaction".I will check that out and keep you guys informed.Jan Schoenefeld (EDDF)

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Guest ilh

I think my merge is OK with respect to Wade's interaction posting. The aircraft.cfg in the merge is basically PIC's aircraft.cfg with a few edits for landing gear, FS2002 lighting, and eyepoint to make it consistent with the visual model. The flight dynamics are pure PIC and zero POSKY so I don't see how there could be strange interactions.Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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I had a similar problem only I was mid-Atlantic at the time.I think it's actually caused by joystick noise or interference, causes it to go a bit crazy.Try switching off joystick control once a/p is engaged (is it K key?? I can't remember)Jonathan

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Hi Lee,I just used your program to merge PIC with a POSKY a/c (B767-200). Made a short flight from Heathrow to Brussels. I was at cruising alt FL250 and was nearly over the TOD point when suddenly everything went wacko. Plane rolled around and went into a vertical climb and was stalling. Had to recover by switching off the autopilot. Also noticed that the trim was way off - was trimmed nose up all the way. Had to reduce trim to normal levels before I could recover. Then proceeded to land at Brussels manually.I've made various flight using the original Wilco 767 without encountering such problems. Any ideas? I'm wondering if it has something to do with the weather. I'm using FSMETEO version 5.1 and I've configured it to use Hi-resolution winds aloft.Regards,DaveAntwerp, Belgium

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>I had a similar problem only I was mid-Atlantic at the time. >>I think it's actually caused by joystick noise or >interference, causes it to go a bit crazy. >>Try switching off joystick control once a/p is engaged (is >it K key?? I can't remember) >>Jonathan Hi Jonathan,I'm also encountering these strange problems. Are you by any chance also using real world weather (FSMETEO) when you're having these problems? If so do you have Hi-resolution aloft winds enabled in FSMETEO?Regards,DaveAntwerp, Belgium

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>....no, all I reported was what I experienced last weekend. >>However: That behaviour was totally unknown to me before. >Before I was flying the original 767PIC and after that I >have been using the PIC-POSKY (your merge) pretty much for Hi Jan,I'm also encountering these strange problems. Are you by any chance also using real world weather (FSMETEO) when you're having these problems? If so do you have Hi-resolution winds aloft enabled in FSMETEO?Regards,DaveAntwerp, Belgium

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Dave,the answer is no, I do not use FSMETEO.However, I did solve my problem and posted the solution in another thread: See #780.It was actually posted before, that switching all failure system sliders to the very right ("all failures") might cause problems.I observed these problems for the flight-control-failures slider only.Regards,Jan (EDDF)

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>It was actually posted before, that switching all failure >system sliders to the very right ("all failures") might >cause problems. >I observed these problems for the flight-control-failures >slider only. Hi Jan,Thanks for your reply. I have to say that I do not have system failures activated, so obviously that is not the cause of my strange problem. As far as I can tell the problem doesn't occur on every flight, so that's why I'm beginning to think that it has something to do with the weather (winds for example). I'm not sure. I am experimenting with the settings in FSMETEO (Hi-resolution winds aloft) to see if it has any effect. Like I said it's not happening on every flight so it's difficult to pin point the cause.Cheers,Dave,Antwerp, Belgium

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