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Guest byoung

Eye Candy, Eye Candy ....Jeeze----------- I get tired o

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people who don't think that "eye candy" has anything to do with real flight! Or at least not of importance. Reminds me of the time I was crossing the Atlantic in a B747 looking at icebergs in the area that they found the Titanic a few days later. I was politely asked to close my window to keep sunlight off the screen for the inflight "movie"..............Of course I refused, made a scene (but not too bad), and then packed pillows around my head and the window to block the light! Who cared about "Soldier Blue" compared to what I was seeing!"Eye Candy"------------ IS my purpose for real flight, since I don't do it as a job! It's the reason I love flying real GA aircraft, and always request window seats when flying commercially. I also know many active and retired commercial pilots (thanks to the Experimental Aircraft Association) who buzz around in their small homebuilts to enjoy the world from a "lower" perspective.It's just a few postings on some other topics relating the "eye candy" not being essential to a flightsim, that get's me in this "mood"Long live "Eye Candy" and any FLIGHT SIM that makes it look better! L.Adamson

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Eye Candy is essentiel to a Flight sim. When you are flying most of the time your eyes are focusing the ground, scenery, sky , remove this and you will get bored and this will be a crappy sim even if your panel and aircraft system is ultra realistic like some high cost simulator already available.With no Eye Candy you will not have:Great scenery world wideWeatherAirports and Data, navigationAi AircraftEffect increase the realism Atc etc etc..Ms finally start to getting more life in Msfs Series, Like I have said tons of time to them via email, get more Msfs Alive with interaction, Ai aircraft, effect etc..This will get even better in the next version of Msfs.Eye Candy, Eye Candy!ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFshttp://fsw.simflight.com/fsw.jpg

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"Long live "Eye Candy" and any FLIGHT SIM that makes it look better!"Gets my vote!! :-jumpy

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I find really sharp shades of blue in swimming pools very interesting, especially the big olympic sized pool's near some high schools, and also, if you ever fly along I-55 North near Chicago by Midway, you won't miss the massive sewage treatment facility. It's stunning just because it is so massive. Hmm, I also like looking at water tower's, and try to see if any cars on nearby roads look like my own, or someone I know, or even my actual car that has been stolen while I am flying around, that way I can follow it, and get the bad guy! Another fun thing to look at are rivers, lakes, and ponds. Trying to see fish, birds, or someone in a string bikini is always fun. Hmmm, also looking out for hang gliders and other planes, thats always fun. Ya never miss an American Airlines jet, they are nice and shiney, meaning, get in front of me at you become my hood ornament!RAMBLING COMPLETE--------------Paul Meyerwww.KryptonAir.comwww.LAARTCC.org

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L:What I have found is that those who have never really flown seem to be obsessed with systems and instruments, as if that is all there is to flight. The VAST majority of pilots are VFR rated and as such spend MOST of the time with their eyes out the window. As a matter of fact that is the reason the majority of people (including myself) became obsessed with flying. EYECANDY!Ask a retired airline pilot what he remembers most from his 15,000 hours of flying and I betcha he / she will reminisce of that spectacular sunset over the North Atlantic, that cold star filled sky over the Polar Routes, the look and smell of the airport on a rainy summer morning, the first time he /she saw the 747 Queen of the skies or the way the sun shimmers off of tiny lakes from 35,000 feet making them appear as shards of liquid glass...I cannot recall one pilot who has reminisced over that beautiful and sexy left EICAS display or the way the switch for the apu bleed valve felt in his hands!!! How about 'dem wonderful vortex generators? Get the idea?For me, the only difference between FLY! and FS2002 is that airport packages from Wilco, Simflyers (THANKS FOR KEWR!!!) set the "mood" and initiates the suspension of disbelief. When one looks into the computer monitor and it mimics the real world airport surroundings in great detail (eyecandy) one can almost smell the jet fuel and the immersion is complete.At this point of course it is now equally as important to sit at the helm of a PIC767 or DF737, sure we expect no less now, but DON'T discount the eye candy. I found that without the eye candy the exquisite cockpits ring hollow...It is the eyecandy that makes MSFS one of the best selling and longest running entertainment titles ever.Mike T.

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Don't you just hate it when they tell you to close the window...pull down thingie!I never close it. That's why there is a window..so you can see outside..Why close it?? I think that eye-candy is as important as systems and instruments. A good bablance of both would be good.Take careMike

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"Eye candy" is a misnomer in my opinion: to relegate the ultra-realistic ground cover that's been showing up in the preview shots of LOMAC to "eye candy" is hard to fathom. If realism is to be equated with candy, then how does one characterize that sort of fuzzy, stretched, leopard-like texture seen on the sides of the FS 2002 Grand Canyon? That would have to be "real visual nutrition" would it?I take a similar approach to commercial flying by the way. My wife just booked a return flight to Los Angeles that was to depart near sunset. My first reaction was to ask if there was an earlier departure; we don't fly that often and so it would be good to see something of the scenery when we do (and we were able to re-book on an earlier flight as it turned out).

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Larry I cant really see the meaning of this post. There is nobody who wouldnt want our world faithfully reproduced to the tiniest detail.Every building, every street every cloud etc in perfect colour.What is the point of this eye candy without structure? what is the point of faithfully reproduced clouds which are sterile without life without air movement, just pure eye candy.The same goes for aircraft there has to be structure.If you create a house you have to build the foundations, the walls to give structure and shape and then you dress it with decorative brickwork, tiles, windows so that the building becomes complete.A sim is no different. You start with the core fundamentals to give the sim structure and then coat it with the eye candy.What has been wroung in the past is when the eye Candy becomes all important and the structure is sacrificed for that eye candy.The very thing we fly in ie the sky was sacrificed for ground eye candy so that we ended up with a sky with no movement and with very limited clouds.The aircraft flight dynamics were set aside, sacrificed for eye candy.The panels and the way they are displayed were set aside for eye candy.We all want ultimate realism eye candy and structure but eye candy without structure is meaningless.Get my point ;-)Peter

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I'll clarify....................You said----- "A sim is no different. You start with the core fundamentals to give the sim structure and then coat it with the eye candy."Microsoft did start with a core, only a different way than FLYII as an example. Microsoft's core is a data-base of airports, runways, navigation systems, & topography than can easily be enhanced. These items are all based on real data & not "gamey". Even many roads, rivers, and lakes are included in this "core" for the use in VFR flight. Now, as I've said before.................. let the "third parties" enhance all of our prefered aircraft, systems, and panels. If MS provides the means to farther improve the use of virtual cockpits with working switches, etc,........ then all the better!If MS improves the cloud structure for more realism, then great! But a lot of that structure will be "eye candy". Your own (real)pics of cloud structures are "eye candy", because I'm quite sure you avoid many of those real life clouds. :) L.Adamson

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If MS improves the cloud structure for more realism, then great! But a lot of that structure will be "eye candy". Your own (real)pics of cloud structures are "eye candy", because I'm quite sure you avoid many of those real life clouds. L.AdamsonLarryThe structure of the clouds is the dynamics, air movement, temperatures, moisture contents, pressure systems etcThe result of that living dynamic weather is the various cloud types which form because of that interaction.This is just my point of candy without structure as yes you might as well stare at a photograph as your screen.This Candy without structure goes right into the heart of other areas of the sim and this has to be addressed first with the Candy second not the other way around.Peter:-)

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BOTH EYE CANDY AND STRUCTURE ARE EQUALLY IMOPORTANT, THEY LIVE ONE WITH THE OTHER. THIS THING IS EVOLVING, THAT TAKES TIME, LOOK AT THE GREAT STEPS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE IN JUST 10 YEARS....THERE'S ALSO A NEED FOR IMAGINATION TOO, THIS IS A SIM, AND IT WILL NEVER BE EXACTLY AS FLYING IN THE REAL WORLD, OF COURSE I'D LIKE TO HAVE LOTS OF IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE NEXT VERSION, JUST AS EVERYBODY, BUT 2 WEEKS AGO, WHEN I LOST MY SYSTEM, AND MY CD'S GOT DAMAGED ALSO, I DECIDED TO INSTALL FS2000, JUST FOR FUN, AND BOY, THERE HAS BEEN A GREAT IMPROVEMENT!!, I HAD ALREADY FORGOTTEN HOW THOSE GHOST TOWNS (AIRPORTS) LOOKED LIKE, THE LACK OF ATC, THE TEXTURES OF THE SCENERY, ETC... IN ORDER TO ADVANCE IN WHAT PEOPLE CALL EYE CANDY, THERE HAS TO BE AN IMPROVEMENT OF THE CORE STRUCTURE TOO, THIS IS NOT LIKE SOMEBODY SAID, "LET'S PUT THOSE AI THERE, SO THE AIRPORT CAN LOOK BETTER" NO! LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE BEHIND THAT!! THIS AND THE AUTOGEN, AND THE MESH INFORMATION, NAVAIDS, REFLECTIVE TEXTURES, DIFERENTIAL BRAKING, ATC, THAT WICH I LOOK AS IMPROVEMENT FOR BOTH CORE STRUCTURE AND EYE CANDY, ARE BULKDING THE PATH FOR THE NEXT GENERAION OF SIMMING SOFTWARE, BUT ONE STEP AT A TIME, THAT'S HOW I TAKE IT.

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I couldn't live without eye-candy! Also I can understand your frustration at being asked to close your blind during the flight, can you say what airline? :D.I agree - any Flight Sim that builds on eye-candy is a good one!

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"THERE HAS BEEN A GREAT IMPROVEMENT!!, I HAD ALREADY FORGOTTEN HOW THOSE GHOST TOWNS (AIRPORTS) LOOKED LIKE, THE LACK OF ATC, THE TEXTURES OF THE SCENERY, ETC... "Yeah Microsoft did it, but as we saw, there had to be competition which is gone. Unfortunately!Rodger :-beerchug P.S.: I like eycandy too.........

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{.....This will get even better in the next version of Msfs......}:-walksmile :-cool ...any insider information... :-cool :-walksmileJust kidding :-)I agree eye candy has to be, I think there are other simulators like "Airliner" was that might have better flight models but graphics of FS5.1, I am not a real pilot and unfortunatelly I am afraid I never might be (comercial anyways) so as long as it's pretty hard to land aircraft in flight Simulator with all setting max (realism) then that is real enough for me.Now ofcourse always do work on better more real flight models, sure no doubt about it, but I would say eyecandy first :-)BTW I tried Airliner and did not like it... why? Well because of lack of eyecandy.:-waveAndy

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I have to say one of the coolest things about MSFS2002 was when I first got the sim I was flying into Bar Harbor with the Baron and I was on approach and what stunned me was that there was trees all around. I knew right there that the scenery was what made this so enjoyable. I hope they keep up with the eye candy. I like to buy the commercial aircraft for the good flight models.Andrew

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Hi,I am also getting tired of this discussion. :-lolWhat we are talking about are apples and oranges. I can admit that Micro$oft has some points in FS2002. But it is still not a Flight Simulator. It is more a MS Flying Adventure Game.The issue here is the definition (spelled right?) Simulator. :-)In a Flight Simulator the main issue should be the aircraft systems and FDE. Not the visual enviroment.This is why I strongly feel that Micro$oft should make more diffrences between a Pro and Standard version. Some would fly the Standard version with all eye candy, and some would fly the Pro version with full aircraft systems and accurate flight models. :-lol Something for every taste...... ;-)A Pro version could easily cost 200-300, and the Standard version 100-200 bucks. And beleive me, MS could easily earn much more money than they have until now. I still don

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StaffanIL2 has a far better, more thought out and coherant "structure" than FS2002 which has gaping holes IMO.Infact IL2 even with its bland scenery textures give a far more immersive and realistic sensation of flight than fs2002.I would love to see what those guys could do with a GA sim :-)You can clearly see the gaping holes in facts like the two panel system used at present of VC and 2D which both are "Jack of all trades and master of none".You can clearly see the structure holes in the flight dynamics engine.Okay Genius s like Rob Young and Steve Small will work their Magic trying to cover up inadequacies in the flight dynamics engine by all manner of tricks.Dont forget that this engine is years old.There is very little Sky structure with the sim relying more and more on gimmicky glitter alone.Yes I too would love to see every car post box and tree faithfully reproduced but realise other fundamental areas need attention before the sim fully comes together....maybe FS2004 I hope.Peter

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Yawwnnnn....why do you spend so much time talking about it Peter, if it has "Gaping Holes?"

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Hi Peter and all!I like eyecandy, but other than that I'm with Peter.It needs an intelligent content to be really worth it.Fly safe,-Niels C.

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>Yes I too would love to see every car post box and tree >faithfully reproduced but realise other fundamental areas >need attention before the sim fully comes together....maybe >FS2004 I hope. >>Peter Hi Peter,I agree with you here.One simple example is the EPR/thrust rating function in FS2k and 2k2. It would take MS very little time to fix that probblem,...among many other systems. But hey,.....they thought it was far more important to add animated waves on the water in FS2002 than working flight systems. :-hmmmThere has been very little to no improvments on aircraft systems and FDE

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Just lending my support for your going out on a limb and helping explain why some of us feel visuals are important.No one who lends such importance to visuals is going to say that aircraft realism, flight model fidelity, etc isn't important. Peter's comments about weather are right on....weather dynamics need to be improved a great deal. Right now, clouds are simply a backdrop for screenshots, and don't extend very far from an aircraft when in "simulated" 3-d mode. Talk about eye candy--imagine flying at FL350 and seeing a line of squalls in the distance, or being in line at BWI hoping to go "wheels up" before the airport is shut down due to an approaching squall line.But going back to flight model fidelity, and instrumentation, I feel both are good enough now that I'd be willing to sacrifice improvement here to add to the weather engine, or to enhance the ground scenery (especially at low altitudes). Flying around in the Flight1 Cessna feels quite close to the real thing--and I had a chance to sit "right seat" in one on a flight in Venezuela a dozen years ago. Perhaps I can't feel everything behave 100 pct., but I'm satisfied with realism on the scale it is today.Often the phrase is used "This is a Flight Simulator" to call for turning the product into a 100 pct. aircraft systems and dynamics simulator. Truth is, that's what we as enthusiasts do wish--we wish it could do everything. But the other truth is that this is an entertainment simulator. The user who simply wants to gaze out of a passenger window, such as one can do with the new A340-5xx/6xx, is as valid a member of this community as a pilot who wants to click switches, practice stalls, spins, handling ATC chatter, etc....Peter's interest in improving the weather engine is also my number one "eye candy" and realism hope for FS2004.... As for flight dynamics and instrumentation, all I can say is I'm satisfied with the status quo, if improvement in those areas would risk slowing down performance of the sim.-John

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"Peter's interest in improving the weather engine is also my number one "eye candy" and realism hope for FS2004"To be Honnest, I am not expecting anything from a real weather system from the default by Ms, simply because it take many month to do and don't forget the frame rate thats will screw up the sim. Like cfs3 still only 2 layers of clouds cumulus visible at the same time frame rate problems. I expect improvement on the rain, snow, clouds, lighnting Bold, visual and rendering/sky colors, but not a real weather system, thats is ok to me, 3rd party will be able to improve this. I hope I am wrong! I can tell you if they want a true weather system, the details & situation are very long. ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFshttp://fsw.simflight.com/fsw.jpg

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