I know this is a little off topic but I've been flying PIC shortly after it was released and have truly enjoyed this great sim. I visit this forum regularly but very rarely post and enjoy keeping up to date on the very latest regarding this product.Recently for a change of pace I purchased Ready For Pushback 747-200 which I'm sure many of you have heard about and maybe some of you even own. I have been expecting that someone would have been making comparisons of PIC 767 vs. RFP but haven't seen it yet. I know that AVSIM has a forthcoming review (pending a patch I believe) but there still is not a lot of talk about (in my opinion) a very good sim. I've done searches on this forum also but haven't come up with anything.What are your opinions regarding RFP vs PIC? Thanks in advanceSnipe

Snipe,It isn't even fair to make the comparison. PIC is way ahead... way ahead, my friend.Tero

Thank you for your reply. After using this sim (RFP)for a while I'm afraid I must agree. I think I expected it to be at the same level as PIC but I've been a little dissapointed. What have you based your opinion on sir? Do you own this sim?Thank you,Snipe

You are comparing to very different aircraft from different era's of technology. I own both and have flown both quite a bit...of course PIC a lot more since it has been out for awhile. They both represent the technology quite well. O owned Ralphs 1st panel for the B747-200 and I do like the second one a lot. I am waiting for the patch in order to have some problems fixed...including the INS. Overall a good package...not perfect...but a good representation. It has brought me quite a bit of knowledge on how an aircraft with three crewman on the flight deck is flown with one person...Lonely at best. You have to really study the manuals and do the tutorials over and over to get the sequences down and procedures to get this plane to fly as the real one quite a challenge.PIC presents a revolution in technology and automation in the cockpit. Again, a benchmark that is hard to beat. I still love it with a passion and that it was put out into the market pretty much bug free and then patched for use in FS2002. I will definately keep it flying in MSFSCOF. If you have any other questions let me know.

Hi Snipe."I think I expected it to be at the same level as PIC but I've been a little dissapointed. "I'm not sure I would agree with that, although comparing sim products is hard (if not dangerous) enough at best, and as another poster indicated, this is not one of those "best" situations. Both of these aircraft represent very different eras and flight / cockpit technology. I think it comes down to whether you like glass or classic cockpits, the latter requiring a 3 person crew and a lot more work. I think that both are excellent, but very different. I have always thought of PIC as being the "PS1" of FS panels. I would now rate it the "PS1 of glass panels", and while RFP may not be as bug free as yet, it will surely take the honors for the classic panels when the current issues are addressed.And when the PMDG B737NG comes out, we'll be doing this all over again, I'm sure. :)Bruce.

Yes yes yes.....I hope we can go on doing this for a very long time. The ability to purchase and try out so many different offerings for FS2002 is great. I hope that developers Freeware and Payware keep up the hard work of pushing the limits of simulations. FS serves a diverse group of fliers from the heavy jets to bush fliers. While last night I did a little flying around Hawaii with Lagos PHNL and all of Bill Melichors scenery and the Flight One C421 Twin. Now that is diversity within a software package. Now PIC is still my number one fave of all time if I were to have to keep only one package that would be it. If MS were totell me that they were no longer going to supply aircraft with their product I could care less. I never even look at them anymore since FS2000. As I described in my previous post I do not think that the RFP package is going to out sell PIC. It is not for everyone. I myself like the new revolution in flight decks. That RFP is a lot of work!!!

I couldn't agree with you more tascaso. Ever since I started flying PIC everything else has been a real disapointment (especially the default aircraft). Don't misunderstand me, the developers of RFP (and other fine addons) have done a tremendous job in replicating the panels and most systems very well. However; something about switches that have no functionality bothers me. I realize that there are constraints in the MSFS program and that their goal in developing products like this is to give you a sense of real life procedures regardless of whether the switch actually works BUT I would rather it not be implemented at all rather than give one a false impression that you're actually affecting something relating to the plane's systems. At least in PIC I know if I flip a switch it WILL affect something. Maybe I'm expecting too much now from addons ever since PIC (and even this great sim has its limits as far as systems replication) but it has certainly set the bar that other addons are still compared to after all this time. I appreciate everyones feedback on this matter and I will end with this: PIC is still,and probably will remain, the leader in large jet simulation for MSFS.Thank you,Snipe

Well there is nothing wrong in being demanding as long as we know what we want. Sometimes the market delivers sometimes it doesn't. PIC is a wonderful benchmark. I remember when the freeware version came out for FS98 it was wonderful. When we found out it would turn into Payware...it was astounding! The final product took a long time to bring to the market place ....but well worth the wait ... was it not.T. Ascaso RN

Sorry guys, but it seems to me that you even didn

I admit I haven't flown this sim a whole lot since I've owned it and may not know as much as I probably should about this program before I make any determination regarding it's rating against PIC. Believe me, I am no expert in rating flight sim products. My intent regarding this post was to find out what others initial impressions were of this product and not to bash it. As I said in my previous post, I do think that the developers did a fantastic job with replicating the complexities of an aircraft built in the early 70's.And you're right, it is a very different aircraft as compared to the 767.In regard to my comment about non-functioning switches I was basically refering to a statement made on page 10 of manual 1 which states:"Some gauges, lights and switches functionas intended in the manual, while some gauges, lights and switches are added andeven though the switches click, the lights light, and the gauges have moving dials... thereis no real function behind them, and they are added to provide you with some proceduralreality and experience."And as far as specifics:Page 72 AOM 1"Flight Controls Hydraulic Power Panel (Non Functional except switches)" "Alternate Flaps Switches (Non Functional exceptswitches)"So as far as I've been able to tell thus far from reading the manual and flying "The Whale" these are the only switches that are non-functioning. If this is the case than I wholeheartedly retract my statement regarding inop. switches because if these ARE the only ones in all the systems replicated then that is a feat!I shall fly this sim a little more and keep my mouth shut!Thanks.Snipe

Hi,RFP742 is a great pkg. It has a great VC and flies very well.After the patch it should be even better.Pat

Thanks Pat. I appreciate you taking the time to give your opinion regarding RFP. Which do you get more enjoyment flying,PIC or RFP and why?

@ Snipe:no, I didn

Hi,If I feel like glass cockpit, 767. If feel like flying a whale and enjoy VC in 3D, 742. At the present time, 3D cockpit immersion is too good not to be enjoyed.Also, if you don't use 3D glasses + trackIR, you're only getting half of the fun out of sim flying.I like both planes. Pat

Great conversation here!!!Most pleased that people read the manual!!!!!For those of you who want to REALLY appreciate modern technology, and are interested in the application of computer technology to aviation, the "Whale" is an amazing lesson in "the past" Trying to digest a 747-200 AOM while writing the RFP manual, I never ceased to be amazed at the complexity of the -200 and it's generation of technology, especially having been a PIC flyer since day 1 and PS1.3 flyer for many years. The differences in technology are simply unbelievable, especially comparing the 767 and 747-400 to the "Whale". An FMC is just the tip of the iceberg. The -200 is such a complicated aircraft to fly, and requires dedication and practice ... very similar to PIC. After 9 months of testing and trying to understand how it was supposed to work, I am now "vacationing" flying a single turbo Piper Meridian ... hahaha.I personally believe that anyone with the talent and brains to put together a project like Ralph Tofflemire and his team has done, and certainly like Wade, Eric, Pedro et al have done with PIC certainly deserve my admiration and support.Like someone "said" in a post above, I agree that we are very fortunate to have choices of awesome freeware AND payware.