Boeing Ad, the PIC Team and this idea that just occured...

[bojote 23]

How many of you have seen the Boeing ad in the avsim front page? there's even threads discussing it, after all, as Tom said in a post this is the first time Boeing is involved in the flight sim community in a rather direct way.How many of you know what Flight1/Dreamfleet is doing with aircraft manufacturer ATR? read this statement: "The flight simulation world is so big today that it became evident for ATR that we needed to be present - as in the real life with more than 650 ATRs flying worldwide - with a high quality representation of our aircraft. We selected Flight One Software for their demonstrated ability to produce outstanding aircraft, highly realistic and with extensive features. We are very proud of this partnership and are confident that the ATR developed by Flight One Software will set new standards in the Microsoft Flight Simulator world."That's what ATR president, Jean-Pierre Cousserans said. now, using common sense and a bit of imagination. Think about this:Why does Boeing advertises the 7E7 on Avsim? awarness right? they know there's a huge community of flight sim enthusiasts that among other things discuss things like Boeing vs Airbus, aircraft performance, range, how good it handles etc etc.Now, what if, Boeing, with the sole objective of creating EVEN more awarness for promoting their 7E7 helps a well known developer simulate the 7E7 systems to a point NEVER done before by any other developer? or even better, what if the Microsoft business development team (that's what I would do) pays Boeing a visit (Microsoft and Boeing are both located in Seattle) and tells them to work jointly to release FS2006 with the 7E7 as one of the default aircrafts and full simulated systems? would this spark interest in FS2006? ha! YOU BET, would this help Boeing create the awarness they want enabling enthusiast and even pilots 'test drive' the new bird? what do you think?If someone asks me WHO would be the best developer to do something like this I would recommend the PIC team, hands down. I guess that if a Microsoft Flight Simulation team member reads this he'll tell his peers in the business development department about the idea. Which, is exactly my objective... this will create the perfect theme for FS2006 (the 7E7 in the cover) something about the future and the next 100 years of aviation or something like that.. again, what do you think? I'm just in the mood for creativity today... besides, If the PIC team members read this then I would suggest YOU propose this formally to a Microsoft team member, I would propose this oficially to Microsoft to work in a joint deal, I doubt Boeing will trust an Add-On developer more than they will trust Microsoft, but Microsoft KNOWS what add on developers to trust so it makes sense they will look for a team in the community to work on this while they develop the core FS2006 engine ;) I tried to share as much details as they came to my mind so others with the time, the money or knowledge can make this a reality. My 0.02 cents for the day.

[wchafe 0]

Funny you should post this. I just saw the Boeing add and I was thinking to myself it would be great if we could team up with Boeing like F1 did with ATR to produce a 7E7 sim. I know we could do a good job :-)Regards,Wade

[bojote 23]

It would be the 'Perfect' marketing strategy for Boeing, not to mention a blast for the flightsim community, I'm sure that 'someone' has to work a deal out of this, it's the natural thing to happen.I posted this message here, in the PIC forum not by chance. It is the only developer/team with the skills to do it. I know (as well as almost any other PIC user) that you guys are capable of doing this better than anyone else, however if Microsoft is fast (which I don't know) they'll propose it.. think about it, it's a win win everywhere.

[Guest]

Its a great idea, they are also advertising on another well known aviation site, so its a great advertising strategy, and will grow as more people see it on the weekend. I doubt we would see a modelled 7E7, as I dont believe it will be flying by then and how they get flight dynamics and sound, without the real aircraft.Good Luck at Farnbourogh Boeing, these ads have been sparking a lot of interest :)

[George_M 0]

The Boeing ad immediately caught my attention. Congratulations to AVSIM for being recognized by Boeing as an outlet for advertising their product. I have always wondered why mainstream aviation did not make better use of the Flight Simulation Community. It is a built in market for them filled with avid aviation fans which they can tap into and promote their product.As far as an affiliation between Boeing and Microsoft, I imagine one already exists because you see Boeing products in existing versions of Flight Simulator. Microsoft has a history of basing performance of its FS aircraft to a certain extent on the real world versions (its not 100% accurate but its not a complete miss either). I would, however, be very surprised if Microsoft took them up on an offer to detail a default aircraft on a level comparable to PIC or PMDG. The vast majority of purchasers of Flight Simulator simply don't want that level of simulation and aren't willing to invest the time it takes to learn how to properly fly airplanes such as the B763, 737NG and the 7E7. I think Microsoft concentrates on more fully recreating GA aircraft (such as the Cessna and Baron) and relies on more simplified versions for the larger, commercial aircraft.I agree that the people who read this forum (myself included) would run and buy such a product were it ever offered but I don't know if there would ever be enough people to make such a project worth the while of a company the size of Boeing. If they ever were to entertain such an idea, I think that Boeing would likely have to turn to smaller scale developers. I've heard it too often from real world pilots how realistic PIC is to the real bird (in the 90%+ range) so given the data, talented individuals (such as the PIC team and PMDG) can do wonderful things that I think the manufacturers would be proud to endorse.Despite my doubts of it ever happening, such an affiliation would be way cool. :)

[Guest RogePete]

I agree with George.Having a joint venture with Microsoft and Boeing and the PIC team sounds nice in the first place, but...I think the precise simulation of an aircraft (like PIC did with B767) could be "infiltrated" by the (legitimate) commercial interests of MS. You have to minimize 'the amount of buttons in a cockpit' to keep the FS kind of a mainstream product which is also used by beginners and 'little pilots'.I think MS made a good decision, when they left the programming of "HIFI-models" and cockpits to addon-designers.In this way you have the basic pack (FS) for the mainstream and the more detailed things (scenery and planes) for the hardcore community.I don't want to see the PIC-team (and their product) falling victim to these MS interests. I would be disappointed.Regards,Roger

[wchafe 0]

"I don't want to see the PIC-team (and their product) falling victim to these MS interests. I would be disappointed."We never would.But then again, in the words of Krusty "They backed a dump truck full of money up to my door. WHAT COULD I DO?!!Wade

[bojote 23]

1) I doubt Boeing will pay attention to any add-on developer for such a venture without knocking on Microsoft door first. Common sense, If you were a Boeing executive and someone comes forward with this idea for Microsoft Flight simulator, what would you do? ;)2) I will rather contact Microsoft and provide them with ALL the compeling reasons as to why something like this makes sense. (I'm talking FINANCIALS) Microsoft don't care about how real the plane is or will fly. But the PIC team will ;) and trust me, BOEING will like their bird to fly by the numbers. so this is a threesome, Beoing + Microsoft + Add-On Developer.It's clear and simple, propose Boeing a venture to create a HIGHLY detailed model (study sim like) of a 7E7 for MS FS2006. Because of all the hype this can create Boeing can BENEFIT from it, why? well.. How many Virtual Airlines exists today? how many flight simmers? how many are real pilots? or how many work for major airlines or are decision makers? If the bird is as real as it gets and performance/fuel numbers are what they will actually be in real life then Boeing does NOT need to sell anything... common topics in pilot lounges or Flight sim sites forums will be how real the simulated 7E7 is and how cockpit management is like and how it resembles the real plane (which, by then will have it's own level D full motion sim), just imagine: This is the PERFECT theme for a Discovery Wings sunday night feature or a CNN article on how you can Fly a plane that does not exist!, yet it is simulated to a point were it's 95% real. So would Boeing be interested? Will Microsoft? what's in for each of them? Boeing creates awarness, microsoft sells the simulator, The Add-on developers get paid by Microsoft (And Microsoft will actually PAY for this, because you can make FINANCIAL sense out of it)My guess is that if a GOOD well known developer approaches them (Microsoft) with PROOF (and a how-to plan) on how to acomplish this, then this is a done deal. The PIC team has enough credentials to do it, period.You see Wade.. if I were you, I would be searching my wallet for Microsoft business cards that you probably got from the last Avsim conference, if you don't even try this you'll never know what the outcome would be, dreams do come true, and it's people who don't believe in them the ones creating the nightmares.My 0.02 cents... Now a shameless self promotion:Visit www.simradar.com and check out the SPN Service (Free IAP charts, Weather METAR's, Chat, Flight Planning, etc)

[Guest nomad]

Apart from that the 7E7 will be another boring fly-by-wire and glass cockpit plane. The 767 is maybe the last one of a great series of planes I'd like to fly in the simulator. It has the right mixture between automatisation and manual flying experience.Nomad

[Guest niceguy2782]

Well I am a Boeing a really excited user yet I don't mean to be ursting anyones bubble here but that Boeing Ad .. is and will be on every tom, dick and harry aviation related website.Boeing have never not acknowledged the FlightSim community ... they would indeed loike a big piece of the pie fromm any commercial developers in this area of aviation.Oh BTW on a side not .. Boeing just announced yesterday that the new dreamliner coluors will become the standard Boeing colours from now on. Lots of goodies in stores with new airplane models and apparel with these fantastic new colour scheme.

[marcom 139]

I wonder if anyone has thought about the "huge" security "risks" involved?!Until now, most US airlines have prohibited civilians from flying their sims. Employees were threatened not to disclose any information about how aircraft fly. And now you think Boeing will make all this information publicly available to everyone? Flight sim operators pay around 1 million USD just to get all the information they require to keep their sims "flying". This information would be needed to replicate the 7E7, especially because no one has any experience on it! With the 767, you can ask any experienced pilots if the sim "feels right". Unfortunately, you can't do this with the 7E7.While I think it would be an awesome venture, I'm afraid it won't happen, at least not while airlines are replacing their cockpit doors with bullet proof armored doors and crews have to transmit a special code that wish to fly into the DC area...Regards,Mark

[Guest RogePete]

>We never would.>>But then again, in the words of Krusty "They backed a dump>truck full of money up to my door. WHAT COULD I DO?!!>>Wade>

[wchafe 0]

I can tell you that there's a huge amount of technical data available publicly for all large aircraft. This is available on the internet. It is really not possible to stop anyone from accessing detailed technical information on aircraft. "Employees were threatened not to disclose any information about how aircraft fly." This is more about optics than anything else. I don't see how releasing technical information about an aircraft's systems would be a huge security risk. These aircraft are flown by just about every country in the world. All airlines have all of the information and manuals that exist for each aircraft. Wade

[Guest Lenny Zaman]

MArk, you're talking about the US now, in europe, flying a level D FFS is as easy as baking a cake....(though i must admit, i s*ck at baking cakes ;))

[teropa 4]

YupThis is true. The fuss around these "security issues" is ridiculous. I have tons of real aircraft material, namely from 757/767. I have flown a 757 FFS numerous times, in all around 30 hours... more to come I guess. Knowing how these aircraft operate is just a matter some individual effort. Everything is available with a couple of mouse clicks, and some contacts.However, people equipped with NORMAL BRAIN! will not use that information to fly aircraft into high buildings! The point: it's not the information that causes trouble, it's sick people.Tero