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Donmo

Copyright Infringement etc - are you feeding it?

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I hope this won't come across the wrong way, but with all the talk of copyright infringements by certain sites that we all know too well, I just wonder if the same people that criticize these sites are actually helping them by buying products from their sponsors? I have noticed a couple of people that criticized one of these sites, and then on another forum mentioned how much they liked a new payware add-on they bought from Lago, who happen to be a sponsor of the site in question. And in fact, right now there is a banner at the top of this page as I am typing it for "Emma Field"! I for one will not buy a product, no matter how much people rave about it (like Emma Field) when the Company behind it are known supporters of these rip off sites. Maybe if more people took that stand, the payware companies would think twice about their sponsorship of these sites. Also, Avsim is allowing Lago to advertise here, yet it is Lago's money that is no doubt funding this other guy's "law suit" against Avsim!!! Maybe if Lago was hit by this site and other REPUTABLE sim sites by being dropped from advertising there and suffered a major drop in sales, they would be forced to stop sponsoring rip-off merchants?This is not meant to be a case of "I know exactly what I am talking about", but merely a personal observation and maybe others here will correct me on my thinking. The bottom line is I BELIEVE I see some hypocrisy here, but will not say that I know enough about the subject that I cannot be corrected!Here's hoping for an end to the funding of these thieves!Nick

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Friends, I just wonder...Is anybody here an actual Attorney? What EXACTLY is the law in the United States and other countries as it applies to copyrights? I see a lot of folks with righteous indignation that may or may not be appropriate to the law in its enforceable sense. What I mean is...if these files are properly credited...and downloaded from a public source..(internet)...and the marketing around the stuff being sold is that the company is selling "CD's" in order to provide convenience to those with slow bandwidth...it could be possible that these turkeys are within whatever local law may apply to their local jurisdiction.An argument could be made in some quarters that the product being sold is the CD, not the content. Lets face it..most of us are amateurs when it comes to properly documenting "copyrights", but semi-experts at claiming enforceability. I've seen a number of examples of copyright claims that are could be shredded like cheese in the US courts. Im supportive of the majority opinion that this is bad.. I create some content myself. However, Im wondering how much of the fuss here is not germain to the the reality of the problem.Eric

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Thanks for the correction Scott. As I said, I was not too well informed, but did try to keep up with who was supporting these sites to make sure that I did not buy anything from them and thereby fund their support of these thieves. If in fact Lago has terminated their contract, I guess I may have to break down and buy Emma Field after all :) Not that it would fit in with flying for Virtual Ryanair of course!!!My apologies for mentioning Lago, I hope if it is going to cause problems you can edit out mention to them in my message Scott.Best Regards,Nick

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:-lol You've GOT to be kidding?(In a Far-Eastern Court...) "....but Your Honour, I don't sell bootleg software - I only stand on the corner of Hong Kong High Street and sell CDs. ....You mean there's a full-blown copy of Windows XP with all disk protection stripped out of it on the CDs? Well, there's a surprise Your Honour....!!!!"I don't think so, not in ANY quarters! But thanks for the laugh!Toni.

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I can say with an extremely high degree of certainty that Lago is definitely not going to renew their advertising contract with that particular site (although they are hamstrung right now with their ads appearing due to contractual obligations). I believe the same is the case with eDimensional and some other sponsors there.Trust me, Lago is one of the "good guys". ;-)--M

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I pride myself in being a reasonable patient guy... and here to 'serve' the hobby, i.e. our readers and my friends and colleagues, experienced AND beginners....And as much as I agree on the subject of copyrights and protecting people from the great big ugly world out there.... do we HAVE to discuss it EVERY WEEK on the this forum !!??? Yeah, yeah, I know I don't have to read it... well, actually... I do, you see, because I am supposed to keep an eye on things around here.I see Scott and Matt already jumped in to set yet another wandering soul straight ( :-lol ) but this is really getting me (and I am sure many others with me) into the 'boring mode'.... (by the way.. 'other forums'? What other forums ????? LOL !).Everybody, please, if you then HAVE to say/write something on the subject, could you please please please make surea) it is accurate:( it makes sensec) it ADDS something to the discussiond) warn me to go tosleep before opening any threads that do not comply with a-c ! ;-)And if you want to flame me for this view on this highly interesting and ever actual topic, then please do so while I am asleep..... Oh don't botter, I can always remove messages I do not like, can I ? :-lol :-lol :-lolI go flying now.. have fun all :-outta Francois :-wave[table border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0][tr][td valign=bottom" align="center]"At home in the wild"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:avsim.com/alaska/alaska_052.htm|Don's Alaskan Bush Charters]"Beavers Lead the Way"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:www.avsim.com/vfr_center/mainpages/vfr_flights_main_page.htm]VFR Flight Center]"Looking Good Outside"[/td][/tr][tr][td valign=top" align="center]http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif[/td][td valign="top" align="left" colspan=2]http://www.fssupport.com/images/moose2.gif[/td][tr][/table]________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online![/bemail: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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As a freeware author, I do not make $$ off of what I do. I do it for fun and pleasure. When I upload my work to either my site or Avsim, I have within the docs a note specifying freeware and no poaching. Can I enforce it? No. Can anybody? No. It costs too much. I can't take someone to court in Hong Kong for doing something. All I can do as an individual is to try a couple of things. Write them and ask them nicely to stop, or contact their ISP and tell them about copywritten material being transfered over their bandwidth. If that doesn't work,I can stop designing and not worry about it. Do I want to do that? No again. There is no way to stop it. If I could afford to travel to these countries, it wouldn't be to go to court over some electrons on a screen. This freeware dealing and sometimes payware stuff is really at the mercy of the individules to NOT abuse it. As the world changes and people become more irresponsible, these problems increase. The "honesty" system is pretty much gone now. If you make it a paysite, folks can still get in, pay a few bucks and upload it and sell it from who knows where and make back the money a thousand times over. Banning people and Ip's can also be circumvented too. I think it's something we can't really get rid of, no matter what threats are used. Our only hope is to challenge the actual internet providers that host the alleged sites. Some of them could also be as shady as their customers are, so it's hard to kill the corruption at almost any level. The world is just too big and the cost is to large to bother with something like this. The other thing you can do is slap the names around, but then YOU are libel for slander and it will be MY luck, THAT one will be enforced! LOL!Don

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>Is anybody here an actual Attorney? What EXACTLY is the law >in the United States and other countries as it applies to >copyrights? >Quite simply, ASK permission before you use something created by someone else. When you take something anyway, courts await.That's the case in most countries, problems arise mainly when the crime crosses borders.>What I mean is...if these files are properly credited...and >downloaded from a public source..(internet)...and the >marketing around the stuff being sold is that the company is >selling "CD's" in order to provide convenience to those with >slow bandwidth...it could be possible that these turkeys are >within whatever local law may apply to their local >jurisdiction. >No way. I would not mind the following scheme, but anything else is clear infringement:You download it for me.I give you a blank CD-R.You burn it on the CD-R for me.You give me the CD-R.>An argument could be made in some quarters that the product >being sold is the CD, not the content. Lets face it..most >of us are amateurs when it comes to properly documenting >"copyrights", but semi-experts at claiming enforceability. >I've seen a number of examples of copyright claims that are >could be shredded like cheese in the US courts. >OK, if the product being sold is the CD only, the CD should cost no more than the cost of a blank CD-R. That's about 40 cents. Add another 40 cents shipping and the price is 80 cents for the package.Anything more than that and you're making a profit on the content of the CD.The case you're referring to sold the CDs for quite a bit more than those 80 cents each, so they made a profit off selling the work of others.And even IF you sell it at cost only, doing so without the prior permission of the copyright owner is copyright infringement which is punishable by law in every country I know (though some are more lax enforcing it than others).

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Hope everybody knows Im being devils advocate here simply for the sake of discussion.Eric

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