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Matrox

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Hi folks.Today I went to get 2 17" monitors I got with the matrox parhelia (had the parhelia already but since i payed just a few weeks ago I still had to pick up the rest of the deal).And guess what .. I am very happy with the result :)Only problems I see:1 of the 3 monitors has bad colors compared to the other 2the borders between the monitors .. when you turn .. the line of the horizon is broken because the displays should be idealy touching eachoter but they are not so ... that's kinda sad.when flying level things look super though :D

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Hi,Its great to see you like the Parhelia.Ive been using one for about 12mths now.Wouldnt go back to single monitor again.yes it us a wee bit sad about the uneven horizon when banking,but you soon get used to it.You might want to go to matrox site and look at the settings Deximister has posted.They are pretty good.I am going to remount my three tubes so that they are closer.I thinkiit is possible to halve the gap that is present with three standardmonitors in there cases.In my case there is 80mm between pics.Les

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I heard of "seamless monitors" which are 3 TFT's extremely close together but probably unpayable for a student like myself.An other thing I though of is to put monitors further apart so that you don't think of them as 1 big view anyway. Position them more like where they should be. I guess that won't be much better but ..Anyway I have done a flight with the highest resolution but I don't think that will be the setting I will use because when landing at EBBR I got quite some stutter. And the previous setting (minimal res for widescreen) seemed to look just as good.

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Using cheap fresnel lenses you should be able to make a perfect continuous view.

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>I heard of "seamless monitors" which are 3 TFT's extremely>close together but probably unpayable for a student like>myself.>>An other thing I though of is to put monitors further apart so>that you don't think of them as 1 big view anyway. Position>them more like where they should be. I guess that won't be>much better but ..>>Anyway I have done a flight with the highest resolution but I>don't think that will be the setting I will use because when>landing at EBBR I got quite some stutter. And the previous>setting (minimal res for widescreen) seemed to look just as>good.What if you "stretch" the picture wider than your monitor screen area, so the "virtual" images touch? You'd lose part of the visible view, but it might work for the continuity of the horizon.Of course this is annoying to tune it back and forth, but it might help.//Tuomas

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Phillip,One solution would be to do what we did and remove your monitors from their cases in a effort to get the screens closer. By doing this, I have never noticed the uneven horizons your describing. I would caution you though that if you do choose to remove them from the cases, be ver careful when handling. The tubes store a tremendous amount of voltage up around the discharge disc. Enough to knock you across the room.http://www.avsim.com/project757/pics/week23.htmlMichael

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:)I know 'bout the strong voltages from displays and they keep it even when power is off with capacitors so indeed handle with extreme care.However .. my thought on this is that removing the case could mean more EM .. (let me look up this word i want to use) .. interference (that's it). No such problems in your setup ?Either way I got 2 displays stripped from their case in my panels. Only problem is how to "hang" the displays then properly. The 17" has some kind of metal housing still so that's quite easy but the 15" is just the tube with a print hanging under it .. yup HANGING so if i'm not carefull the wires disconnect when handeling it.Either way I like your setup there. Looks clean. I might do something similar. But either way I'll have to start looking for an other 17" because the one I have on the right is like waaaaaay darker than the other 2 and I find that much more an issue than the "horizon thing".Maybe I'll replace it with the 17" from my panel. My gauges won't be hurt too much from that.Either way thnx for the link :) never saw that page on your site. Interesting.

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ow forgot to ask ..At the moment I have set my displays such that I have 2 monitors on the left of the center pole and 1 on the right. Since I think the left-side (PF) is more important on the visuals than right-side (PNF).I see you ahve set them up in the middle. Isn't it hard to see the runway on approach ?I think you are looking to the runway more to the right (since it is in the center of the 3 displays) on appr. while in real the runway would be right in front of you (no matter which seat you are in).Only way to get that issue right is with projection I think .. the further the screen the better.

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Phillip,Yes, we do have to account for that issue as well. What we do is this. We adjust the view parameters in the aircraft.cfg slightly to overcome this anomoly for which ever pilot is flying. We keep (2) config files in the aircraft folder. One for the left seat, one for the right. Then whichever seat is chosen to fly, prior to the flight we rename that file to "aircraft.cfg". I would caution you however. You remarked that the only way to get around this is to use projectors. We did. Projectors will not remove the problem as it effects both types of display setups. Problems such as these are overcome with very costly collimated mirror systems.Michael

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I thought of that but the issue here is that it is not 3 displays but just 1. It is 1 window and thus you can not stretch the image on 1 of the displays.However I have not tried it yet with using 3 separate views of the outside.

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No no. Stretch the *image* on the *monitor* to be wide so part of it is cut off from sides - you lose some, but it might work to make the horizon align.3 separate windows will not work, it'll kill the framerate.//Tuomas

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>I would caution you however. You remarked that the only way to>get around this is to use projectors. We did. Projectors will>not remove the problem as it effects both types of display>setups. Problems such as these are overcome with very costly>collimated mirror systems.Even some of the "big sims" dont work perfectly in that sense. Even those "big" sims that have the "segment mirrors" (like the one we got for our C172 sim from a retired DC-10 simulator) have this same problem - those need to be "aimed" at the eyepoint above the pilots seat. For this reason, both the pilot and co-pilot have a "straight ahead" mirror in front of them that usually shows the same picture, which can be, like Michael said, adjusted to whatever seat the pilot flying is using. Or just pre-set to favor the left seat.Those things have another issue too. The left side windows are aimed for the left seat and the right windows for the right seat. So the first officer cannot see anything on the left side, and the captain cannot see to the right, because he/she will be way off the calibrated eyepoint. All there is visible are black gaps.But it does not hurt that much in real training, since most what matters is when you break clear of clouds in an approach where the interesting things are straight ahead. Where you need side windows is mostly for practicing circling approaches - and those usually are to the left, whereas the left seat person can fly them nicely.//Tuomas

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hmmmmmz .. ?you mean with the settings of the monitor itself ? like with the knobs on the monitor ? can you go that wide ?

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Yes, on the screen itself. I dont know, havent tried. :) But it sounds like it might work.Tell me if it does - we are going to face a similar task ourselves with our 3 collimated mirrors - we just need to find three 25 inch (or larger) monitors first, and we need to finish building the support structure for the mirrors and the monitors.. but yea, we also try to avoid wideview and 3 pc's and the admin & startup nightmare - this is the club sim that is supposed to start up by pressing a button.. So far it does, but adding more ingredients adds ten-fold amount of sweat and tears for making the whole system work reliably.. :)//Tuomas

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I will have to go wideview. Tnx for reminding me. I need to check that page and the cost.I'll slave the matrox pc so that I can make the total amount of displays up to 5 (maybe some day 6). Hope to find a Y cable for the 2 outer panel monitors. They show exact same data anyway.And as for startup .. I might try to find of WOL works (wake on lan). I only know the term and what it does but I have never tried to use it.Is it realy such an issue using wideview ?

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I havent tried wideview. But imagine 3 PCs for 3 monitors. Each of them must have the exact same scenery, the same settings.. there are now 3 PC's that can bork something on windows registry and forget their settings instead of one etc..I have not tried it, but I know there's enough quirks on one windows XP machine to maintain in working order for a sim that has almost 50 flight hours per month.. It's like installing a new can of worms - I wouldnt like to do it if stuff works with the parhelia :) Of course it might work just fine, and probably does. But if it was my own sim, I could always tweak stuff myself, but this needs to work without everyone calling me 8 am on a saturday morning when stuff doesnt start properly :-)I guess it could be done - but we try to keep the cost down, it's not like we have a lot of budget for this. The three 25+ inch monitors for the collimated system will cost a LOT if we end up needing to buy them, thus we are not exactly looking forward to purchasing 3 new PC's right now :) So, if the Matrox works, that'd be good and would make life just easier.//Tuomas

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I'll get just 2 pc's. 1 for visuals with the matrox and 3 displays, 1 for the server with the 2 gauge displays (or 3).Since there is no outside view on the server pc there also is no need at all for scenery or whatever. Just FS9 + wideview + fsuipc + F50 panel.I think a setup like that should work just fine.Oh and I forget almost. 3rd pc is my laptop which holds my "CockpitLink.exe" for Photon going to the server via fsuipc widefs.Idealy I could use the monitor of my laptop for another outside (spot plane) view but that will not work since fs9 doesn't work on it :(

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Yep. We dont run panels at all, since it's all simkits (and fsbus for the flap indicator which we built ourselves) - so all we see from FS when inside the sim is the scenery - plus whatever the instruments show of course.. The fun part is you can fly on the gauges even when FS is in the background, like someone keeps the sim in straight and level flight while someone else works on the fsbus stuff for example..Your idea should work okay. Might even work with panels too, but I guess you had problems making the gauge displays work wiht the parhelia, maybe the motherboard just doesnt like the combo or something..//Tuomas

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Nono .. I had the gauges working great.1 outside display and 2 gauge panels. Worked super. But I prefer taking full advantage of the parhelia with outside views and not panels (cuz that I could do just as good with PCI cards.I just don't want to combo parhelia with PCI cards cuz I think that would hurt performance for the outside view. And I don't want to make it "worse" :(I'm fine with the parhelias performance since I come from a GF 2 Ti 500 and there isn't that much difference (minor step backwards) but I do love the 3 views.

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Hi guysI had a chance to try the two pc setup with wideview--one for scenerys as client and second for panels as server--so far results are good and perhaps can be improoved but didnt have time so far to mess with tweecksAnd can confirm thats parhelia can run with additional pci adaptos for panels--i have 4 of additional pci adaptors o the same mashineAs to your prob , Philippe with dark monitor--some tip for you;Open the case and locate HV tranformer --usualy big black --then u will find adjustments pots on thatThe bottom one usualy named screen--turn this one a little until you will have wonted brightnessAlsow good idea to search wideview forum on parhelia--as far i can remember have seen there recomendations about setups and single monitor colour gama correctionsAs to horizont lineup-- use the same size monitors at least to minimaze the effect--intenical are recommended

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If you poke inside a monitor case, remember there's more voltage in there than you want to "check out" with your fingers.. Unplug and remember the capacitors can keep it charged.//Tuomas

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I also have purchased a Parhelia card but have not set it up yet.I'm curious - I'll be using three projectors for outside views. What is the widest view I can expect to achieve? Ideally I would like to to 120 degrees or better, as I really want the ability to do visual approaches in as realistic manner as possible.Thanks.

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http://users.skynet.be/plipke/Matrox.jpgHow good does this look ? Ok the one on the right isn't perfect but I can't help that. That display is all weird compared to the other 2.I did just as suggested here. Increase the displays with via the hardware settings of the display itself.Doing this, I made the image of the left display wider than visible and put it against the left border. This way the image sticks out behind the border on the right side only. Then you do similar with the right display and finally the center display is stretched on both sides.I am very happy with the result because the main 2 displays I'll be looking at are perfectly aligned.Also notice that I have spray-painted the fronts of the displays black just before. It looks way better now.

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Coolness!I'm happy it worked like I was thinking. :)Also, I bet, once you start to do some serious flying with it, I bet you wont notice the small imperfections even. I mean, the fact that you have a wide display is much more important than the small issue of having a slight "jag" on the horizon line.//Tuomas

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I want to buy one of these cards. Does anyone know if I can get away with the 128 or should I make sure I get a 256 ?Maybe the answer is obvious but the price difference is a big factor.

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