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The video card makes the difference!

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Because of problems I have been having running ms2002 I finally decided it was time to replace my geforce II card to see if it would help. I bought a Visiontek Geforce4 Ti4200 with 128 megs yesterday-what a difference-all the difference!Before-constant blurries within a minute of flight-now none-I can even see the blurrs way in the distance filling in before I get to them. In other words-blurries solved!Total smooth panning in vc mode and nearly instant side views in 2d.Sharpness and visual effect is nearly photo real now-I can not believe the difference.Everything now in the visual display running at the max-everything!(before lots of features like water turned off)-and getting much,much smoother flight on top of it. Only problem now-in 1280 res can't seem to access the menus in 3d mode-have to switch to 2d.I had almost lost interest in using the sim at all because of problems, blurries, and jerkiness. Now the interest is back! http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

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Geof - Are you using XP with SP1 installed? If so, either turn off the FSAA or set it to 4X and the menu bar will be OK in fullscreen mode. It looks like there is a driver issue with the GF4's and SP1. Good choice on the video card. (And, don't forget, almost any 4200 will run at 275/550 (4400 clock speed), or higher, with no added cooling needed.)TripNorthwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

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Geof,Was that the Visiontek XTasy card?I'm returning the ATI 9700 Pro that I just bought. I could never get it working with my system, so I'm shopping again. I appreciate your comments here and it looks like I may finally give a GF card a try.Is this the best recommendation for now?Oh, and one more thing. How about the 275W power supply requirement? Is that a fact or just as a guideline? I believe my PS is either 200W or 250W.

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Thanks for the report Geof. I'm still running a GF2mx 32mb and have been eyeing the GF4's. I saw some good prices on them at Best Buy but didn't make the leap as I was unsure as to how much of a performance increase I could expect. I am having the same issues you were with your gf2 but it's hard to justify that kind of money just to fix some blurries and view load times. Try explaining that to your wife hehe.Gene Bordelon :-wave

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Ouch....that gotta hurt a little...I got TI4400 for $199 from gameve.com more than 3 weeks ago.From next time, I suggest you to try using online shopping, its defenately worth itand if you are worried about teifts you can always make 2nd credit card and put certain ammount of money in itthat is only enough to buy something you are looking at.

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I can say that eVGA GF4 TI4400 is an AWESOME card. As above, I got it from gameve.com more than 3 weeks ago and it's simply amaizing.Edit: BTW, I run it on little low 250W and have no problems at all.

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I suppose it is a matter of nickle and diming. Buy a few add in aircraft and sceneries and it adds up to. The difference is the card is used all the time-the addin's sometimes!I was actually going to wait also except the sim was unusable. I went for 3 weeks without using it and decided it was worth the $ if the sim came back. Now the sim performs in all its glory (which I was not seeing before), the planes fly with control and smoothness, and the visual effects knock me out not to mention I can see the scenery and not a dull blurr. I have to say in the scheme of things this "add on" brought me more pleasure than many of the others which by nickle and diming cost as much! ;) I am figuring I can hold on to the 1.4 athlon until the next version of ms, it performs so well now.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

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Thanks for the info Geof.I have a GF2 MX400 64bm here and have had my eye on the GF4 Ti200 for a little while (since they finally got released here in the UK).Following your recommendation, I think I'll make the buy next payday! (If the bills stay away for that long!! ;)) The Ti400 is just a little out of my wallet's reach at the moment. Got to make some compromises, eh?Cheers,Simon.

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Just purchased a TI4200 64 meg eVGA from their own website and I found them to be competitive to gameve. I just feel better going directly to the manufacturer in case of issues. Price was $143.00 USshould be here in a day or so. I did buy the TI4200 128 at Best Buy for 179 rebate included but my FS locked up continuously. I was getting much better performance with my GF2 MX400, so I tweaked and tweaked until I had enough so I returned it. I hope my luck will be better with the eVGA ,since I heard these cards kick butt .... I am running a 1.9 Gig 512 SRAM intel board XP Home SP1 .

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Me too. My Voodoo 5 gives up the ghost after about five minutes and I love to see the scenery.Thanks for encouragement Geoff, and I'll mention your name when the Wife sees the credit card Bill :).PH

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Geof,Great news. Delighted to have your enthusiasm rekindled.Now, how does your new card display the VC in the Debonair v2.0? (Hint, hint....)Mike

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It does and it looks very nice! Now you have to bug James Eden to get it out-I am only a beta tester myself at this point! I think at this point he is just waiting for another person who is doing detailed human figures (so you can see the bags under my eyes) in the model.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

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Simon - You'll do fine with the 4200. Except for the clock speeds the 4200, 4400, and 4600 are functinally identical. I can OC my 4200 easily to 4400 speeds and almost get it up to that of a 4600. But the difference in FS2002 framerates is less than 10% between the highest and lowest clock settings. To me, that's not worth the cost difference. If you want to run the 4200 at 4400 speeds all you have to do is reset the clocks to 275/550 and it's done - no additional cooling is required. Most manufacturers include some sort of utility which will allow you to change the clock speeds. But if not, you can get the job done with either RivaTuner or the new control panel that comes with the 40.41 drivers.TripNorthwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

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Phil - The GF4 Ti series is probably the best thing, for the moment at least, when looking at FS2002. The cards come in three versions, the Ti4200, Ti4400, and Ti4600 (ignore the "MX" models as they're not DX8 compliant and are little better than a GF2). Functionally the Ti4xxx cards are the same and the only difference is the clock speed. If the card is primarily, or only, for FS2002 my advice would be stick with the Ti4200 as it's the least expensive and the CPU-intensive nature of FS2002 won't let any processor now available fully drive the 4400 or 4600. But if it's for a mix of games then go for the fastest clock speed your pocketbook can tolerate. My choice on brandname is Gainward - they are very well built, priced right, and are readily available most everywhere. As far as the power supply, anything under a well-regulated 300W can be problematic with a GF4. But there are so many variables as to the power requirements of the existing components that the only real way to know for sure is plug the card in and see what happens. Sounds a little unscientific but unless you have all the necessary specs on the existing stuff to do a good power calculation it's the only way to tell - other than just changing the PSU up front.Trip - He Who Can't Spell But Edits Well Northwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

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Comment and Question:I recently got an XFX GF4 Ti4200 from Costco.com for $145 and I've been very happy with it thus far. (I also noted that CompUSA has a PNY Verto 64MB Ti4200 advertised for $129 after rebates).I have not overclocked or tweaked my card. At 250/513 MHz (it came clocked at 513 rather than 500?) it ran 9016 on the std 3D BechMark 2001SE, and I've been very happy thus far with the results in FS2002. (The GF2 MX400 I replaced ran 2820 on the same test).My question is that when I eventually get around to tweaking, what does everyone use for the GF4 Ti4200? I saw NVHardPage at guru3d, I believe. Any recommendations on the best tweaker for this series? I used to have GFTweaker and NVMax, but I don't believe they support this series. (also, I have an AMD 1800+, 512 Ram and Windows XP/1).(This question probably should go in the hardware forum, but since the thread is going here with a much wider view.......)Thanks, Steve J.

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Steve - If you just want to do the simple tweaks like changing the clocks, LOD, and FSAA you might want to look at using the new conrol panel that comes with the 40.41 drivers. For the more esoteric stuff I think the best bet is RivaTuner ( www.guru3d.com/rivatuner/ ). Taking the card to 4400 spec (275/550) will get you another 350-450 on the 3DMark 2001 SE score and you may be able to put another 300 on top of that depending on how high the card's memory will clock. It won't make much of a difference in the FS2002 framerate but with other games it could be a much more significant improvement.TripNorthwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

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Thanks, Trip, for the info. I had read on some forums that the 40.41s still had some problems and was waiting for WHQL certification (still using 30.82's). I take it that you recommend going with the beta 40.41 driver? (Have you heard how much longer until certified 40.41s are released?). One final Q, what LOD do you use for FS2002, and are there any other tweaks you find particularly effective for FS2002 with the Ti4200? Thanks again. Steve J.

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I concur that sticking to the GF4 4200 is the way to go unless you have a P4 3.5 gig cpu.I have just installed a Leadteck TI GF4 4600 on a quick 2.26 system and it does not warrant the 750 South Pacific Pesos (Aussie Dollars) that it cost me. These top of the line TI's need 3 gig or higher to get the best out of them,We dream of paying those prices Downunder GF4 4200 = $550 down here.Cookie

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Trip,Thanks a lot for the insightful and very helpful input.After my fiasco with the ATI 9700 I have a bad taste in my mouth and am a little paranoid. Especially about the power supply issue. Any idea what might happen if the PS can't carry the video card load? I mean, would the screen just go black, lock up, explode in my face...Thanks again.

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