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greggerm

Flatscreen LCD - Analog v. DVI Ports

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Hardware related question for anyone running a LCD flatscreen display...I recently had the opportunity to try out the Samsung 191T with my system. The display has ranked highly among its peers, and with a listed <25 ms. pixel refresh rate, I was expecting great things for gaming. I fired up a FS2002 scenario in the woods of New Hampshire, and I was woefully disappointed at what I saw from this well thought of display.When flying or in motion, the autogen trees had a pronounced shimmer to them. The background terrain and sky looked good, but the trees were jumping off the screen (in a bad way). As I sit here tonight, I am wondering if this has to do with my video card as opposed to the display itself. I have a geforce3, with simply the analog output. As I research, I was reminded that LCD's have to turn the video signal back into a digital format for display - LCD's don't paint down the screen as a normal monitor does, it flat out pops the frame onto the display all at once. The converter has to take a "picture" of a frame and send it to the monitor. A DVI connection has all the digital data ready to go - it just gets popped to the screen.Could this analog-to-digital conversion be contributing to the shimmer that I am seeing?! The trees somehow changing color/position as the conversion is taking place, making them stand out? If so, it means before I purchase monitors, I'll need a DVI-capable board.This would almost make sense - the background terrain and sky didn't show this happening - the trees are very close to my plane and therefore moving across the field of view far faster. I would like to say it did not look like shadowing, or pixel lag - the shimmer was "sharp" - almost like it was intentional. If any of you have first hand experience with LCD's and analog/DVI boards, please do share your thoughts! -GregOn a side note, the monitor is flat-out BEAUTIFUL for 2D and "desktop" work... too bad I have a game obsession! And, I flew out of Meigs at night in a test, and the atmosphere with the monitor was ethereal... it really looked and felt like I was there.

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Hi Greg,I have a Sony 18" LCD. I know what you say about the "shimmering", and I haven;t tried a digital input from the card either (I have a GeForce 3, maybe similar to you?). I also hear you regarding the experience, it gives the FS scene some depth. I'm not sure what a DVI board is, but I suspect it's something different to my G3 video card. I don't have any answers for you, other than to say that my second computer (with conventional monitor) is now relegated to spreadsheets! :)I must watch this thread, as you may be onto something here.Bruce.

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Greg,I am running a 19" and a 20" LCD monitors, and I don't these problems at all. One of the monitors is running in an analog mode, using an adaptor from a digital connector. Everything looks fine.The 19" monitor has both a analog and digital inputs. I have comaped the screen quality switchng back and forth, and I couldn't really see a difference.I'm not sure why you are seeing these effects. My Flatscreens are a 19" Dell 1900FP and a 20" NEC LCD2010.Rick

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I agree that flatscreens are beatiful...Running a Samsung 17" myself. Samsung has always had the best reviews I've seen, and I've been really happy with mine, so I hope yours is as good.Shimmering is a common FS2002 'bug'. It's related to the FS2002 code and the video card. There's been some discussion of it in this forum...you can probably turn something up if you do a search on 'shimmer'. I don't think it's the fault of your monitor, though.Matt

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Rick/Bruce...THanks for the quick latenight responses... I hooked the Samgsung 191T back up and have taken it for another spin, this time doing something I researched on Deja...Apparently this monitor is "native" on the 60hz refresh rates - it supposedly gives the analog-digital converter LESS to do. I am trying that, and I notice that the "shimmer" has turned more into a "blur".I think I am experiencing the typical LCD blurring from refresh timing. I am running a Geforce 3 with AA on and AF at 4x.Bruce - the Dell monitor you have is reportedly the SAME monitor I have, just rebranded (native 1280x1024, dual inputs, digital limited to 60hz). Do you experience the typical smearing from motion with it? Rick - DVI is an interface type - your standard monitor uses a DB15 connector (the three rows of pins)... DVI uses a different plug, but what is most important is that the DVI style transmits data to the monitor in pure digital. The interface you are accustomed to sends it in analog, which is what normal CRT/Tube monitors need. LCD's are happier with digital, which is why DVI connectors are coming out.

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Well, sadly I didn't experience this anomoly on my prior monitor, a Viewsonic V40 (17") CRT, running at either 1024x768/72 or 1152x864/72, and I haven't changed drivers, programs, or otherwise.Unfortunately I think it is the LCD's pixel refresh rate. I am looking into dropping in size to a 17", perhaps the Samsung 171V. Is that the monitor you use?-Greg

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Hi Greg,I think you got Rick and I switched on your reply :)Thanks for your note on DVI. Does this require an alternate "video card" to be installed into the PC?I hope you get to either rectify the issues you are seeing, or that they don't become limiting, as the picture enhancement is nothing short of amazing with the LCD screen.Bruce.

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Oops... sorry...The digital connection requires a video card capable of it - it's not a separate card, but the vidcard must support it. Many of the newer, higher end cards have DVI ports. I'm going to sit with the monitor for a little bit to see if it IS truely limiting, and try more research into how I can fix it or other models not having the same issues. I'll tell ya' - it was tough to put my CRT back on the computer after looking at a LCD. But because flight sims are such a part of my computing use, all should be FS-friendly. :)I'll try to keep the thread alive with updates.-Greg

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Greg,I recently purchased an Eizo L565 to run as part of a multi monitor set up on my FS rig.Currently it has a 19" Mitsubishi 91 (not a patch on my Sony 400PST work machine) running via the analog adapter into a Leadtek GS Ti4600.Having read how good a digital picture is supposed to be I was keen to fire the Eizo up only to find they don't include a DVI lead, only D-Sub. Grrrr. I'm now waiting for the two leads I've ordered (DVI -DVI and DVI - D-Sub) to turn up.I've forced myself not to hook it up via analog. I really do want to see if that first digital LCD picture blows you away like they say it does.

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Thanks Greg,I'm anxious to hear about any difference that DVI makes, in your evaluation. Also read Dean's post (below)- and will see if it warrants any further effort to go that track.Of course, FS 'limitations" are like most others, given a few days or weeks they fade into history, unless you're in a situation that offers constant comparisons. I'm sure you know that too....Thanks- good thread!Bruce.

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I'm running a 170T on an analog connection. We might be seeing different problems...I get "shimmer" sometimes, but it is only in ground scenery textures, as if mipmapping is rapidly being switched on and off. What I'm seeing has been discussed before, and I'm pretty sure it's not a monitor problem. However, it doesn't affect autogen...so I guess I can't help much with that.Matt

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Greg, I don't know if this will help you or not. But, 3 weeks ago I purchased the Gateway 700XL, and it came with a 18" Flat panel LCD monitor (1280x1024). I hooked it up using the Digital output, and have not noticed any shimmering in FS2002. I am using the GeForce Ti-4600 128MB card. So, far I am quite pleased with this new set up. Considering that I had upgraded from a PIII 500Mhz 384MB RAM, 64MB Geforce 2 MX card.Hope I was able to help!Sincerely,JDUVAL

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Howdy folks... well, it's been a long afternoon of shuttling between stores, debating other monitors or video card options, reading info on Dejanews and other forums, and I have made some headway.First thing I did is lose the SAMSUNG 191T monitor. Professional review after professional review have slammed it for a slow pixel refresh rate, which is critical for gaming. My eyes also detected it. Don't believe the claims that it has :) This is step one in my massive system update... early to mid-next year comes the next generation video card (DX9-class), and the fall will bring the new case, mobo, and processor. This kind of turned into an impromptu LCD review, but in essence that is what I needed in the first place. So I did it myself. :) Of course, ymmv, but that's my story so far!-Greg

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Hi Greg,Thanks for the update and informative evaluation you did. You've got me interested in looking at a DVI connection too :) . My LCD (Sony SDM-M81) came as a totally unexpected Christmas present, so I've done none of the process that you're in right now of evaluation. I can recall trying out my new monitor with FS2002 and PIC; and really thought I was at the UA B767 sim here in Denver, the depth enhancement was that good. I even sent our company home on Christmas night (that should be in the thread "you know if you're simming too much" :) . Now maybe DVI....Thanks again,Bruce.

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As another sidenote - I fired up Battleground 1942 for a test and discovered that it was practically flawless. Even though it is technically a first person shooter, the screen performed great. There was some MINOR (and I mean MINOR) hints that it was an LCD, but otherwise it was, for all intents and purposes, a liquid painting. Apparently the MSFS graphics engine, tied into the sheer always-moving aspect of flight, makes for ever so slightly poorer LCD graphics. My old CRT monitor has now officially got one foot in the grave. -Greg

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