NO, in a passenger jet I prefer to sit in the cockpit. I like to pretend beeing the pilot, not a passenger. But of course there aren't many really good jet VCs out there. Captainsim will have a stunning one in their 727, and I would never switch that for a wing wiev.

Greetings!I can fly as a wing watching passenger in real life whenever I want (well... as long as money allows - grin!), so that really holds no attraction for me in FS2002. I bought the sim to simulate things that I can NOT do in real life, like "piloting" a DC3, a B-29 or a 737. But, of course, to each his own. Meticulously created visual models have no value at all to me and neither do wing views or passenger cabin views... in fact I consider them a bloody waste of bits and bytes. But if others think differently, well...: they've got the exact same right to their tastes and idiosyncrasies as I have to mine! Be well, all of you.Jaap Verduijn.

"and I would never switch that for a wing view."A point I made in the CaptainSim forum is that you don't have to. It's a fallacy that having virtual wing views or cabins means sacrificing a virtual cockpit. Nor is the pilot forced to see them--they are controlled through the eyepoint parameter in the aircraft.cfg. To be honest, I feel that many designers, especially GMAX, just don't want to try. I can forgive freeware designers for that--I am grateful for even the simplest of efforts from the freeware community. But payware designers don't have an excuse, unless they clearly state that such views aren't offered. On the other hand, the absence of a virtual cockpit in Ariane's 737 really diminishes the aircraft's value, for exactly the reason you state. For simmers who prefer the role of the pilot in a simulation, having no virtual cockpit in a payware airliner is a real waste, IMHO.I think designers should try to include both. From my limited exposure to GMAX, I'd say it's a heck of a lot easier to include a wing view, as opposed to complete virtual cockpit/cabin/wing experience. POSKY and Simubuild prove the latter can be had. On a rather crude ultralight project I'm doing, I was able to create the wing view and virtual panel with very little extra work. The panel took more effort than the wing, which I simply cloned. It can be done, and I'd say from the majority of this thread's responses, people would like to see it. For those who have the perfectly valid wish to enjoy the sim without the wing views, that is already possible on all airliners, just by moving the eyepoint back into the cockpit.

>>I bought the sim to simulate things that I can NOT do in >real life, like "piloting" a DC3, a B-29 or a 737. >>But, of course, to each his own. Meticulously created visual >models have no value at all to me and neither do wing views >or passenger cabin views... in fact I consider them a bloody >waste of bits and bytes.Wow....................... next time a real DC-3 or B-29 flies overhead, you won't have to bother looking towards the sky for the visual exterior! :)L.Adamson

Greetings L.Adamson!Why not? That's a real life experience that I CAN have, and which I enjoy! As far as the DC3 is concerned, I mean: there's several of them around where I live. As for the B-29: maybe I'll go and see CAF's Fifi sometime!Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

I guess I'm just one of those guys who wants to see the "fake" four radial engines start up with smoke effects, before I climb into the fake cockpit. Just add's to the whole "faked" experience! :)L.Adamson

Well, we're both having fun, and that's the main thing, ain't it? My kids consider me crazy anyway, sitting in my little cockpit with head phones and eDimensional glasses on - I fear they kind of expect me to holler "Vrrrroom! Vrrrroom!" every now and then (grin)!Jaap Verduijn.

bump

I would vote YES for wing views! Even though I prefer to spend most of my time in the cockpit, it is interesting to go into replay mode and see what my landing or takeoff looked like from the passengers perspective. Rob

Here ya' go Jaap. :-hah

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!....these are almost my only aim: nice wing view.thanks!...

I couldn't care less about wing view, unless the wings are visible from the cockpit in real life. As real world pilots have said on forums like these, "What's the point in being a passenger when you are trying to simulate a pilot's environment?"Airliner wing views are a compromise: You either have a wing view as your side cockpit views (bitmaps), or you have the viewpoint adjusted in such a way as to make unrealistic taxiing i.e. you are in the middle of the plane, rather than the cockpit. I simply couldn't fly like that ... it's not "as real as it gets" ;)

Why do I love wing views so much. Perhaps because as I look out the window on just about every commercial flight I've taken, I've seen them. So they mean a lot to me. If a plane has wing views, I have to have it. NO PLANE SHOULD BE PRODUCED FROM NOW ON WITHOUT THE "OPTION" OF SEEING THE WINGS IN ACTION. Just my $.02. Stan

"...What's the point in being a passenger when you are trying to simulate a pilot's environment?..."Kind of presumptuous to assume that such is the only purpose of FS2002. Contrary to pilot opinion, this is an entertainment title. No pilot should insinuate to a user "if you don't simulate a pilot's environment, you're not a serious user." And no one flying for entertainment should say to a pilot "you nerd, all you want the sim for is cockpit drill?" Wing views have their place, as do detailed cockpits. Most aircraft designers that release products with wing views have the eyepoint configured for the cockpit. It is up to the user to move it back. Yet the same argument is heard over and over on the forums--"it gives an unrealistic perspective".... Baloney.... Only if you change the eyepoint that way. Ariane is shipping their product with the eyepoint configured for the cockpit view--hardly an inconvenience to serious enthusiasts. And having been many a time held over at ORD or Detroit in winter, I've seen a pilot crack open the cockpit window so he/she can glance at the wing...And beyond commercial jets, what's with wing views being absent on GA aircraft...? Or commuter aircraft. No one can tell me it's as "real as it gets" when they are checking for traffic, and the wing or tprop engine isn't there, or is a static bitmap that doesn't move relative to the rest of the aircraft.As for unrealistic taxiing, the whole point of the wing view (on commercial jets) is to simulate flight from the pax perspective for those who are entertained that way. Most enjoy this perspective from instant replay. I don't think they care about taxiing the aircraft at that point--just whether the inflight snack will be pretzels or shortbread cookies....and a cold one...:-beerchug

> As real world pilots >have said on forums like these, "What's the point in being a >passenger when you are trying to simulate a pilot's >environment?" I'm one of those real world pilots who has a great interest in the structure and mechanics of a wing....... large and small. I also build full size airplanes as my "major" hobby. Being in the Experimental Aircraft Association for many years, I have quite a few commercial pilot aquaintences who have found a new appreciation for the mechanics of airplanes instead of just whats in the cockpit. Yet "other" commercial pilots have little idea of what's actually keeping the airplane "up". Therefor, my view is that I like to see the mechanics duplicated just for the added effect of being there. Whether it's on the ground, as a passenger, or flying from "spot view" since I'm proficient in R/C flight too! A nice cockpit with a "toilet paper" tube for a fuselage just doesn't provoke my sense of virtual reality. Bring on the wing views, rivits, and all the rest of the eye candy!!!L.Adamson