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brucek

Wing view poll

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Hi All,Just wondering how many of you would like to see this on aircraft. I'm not talking about bitmaps but being able to view the model wings in virtual mode, such as the Ariane 737 or the A340. I never realized how much this adds to the flight to be able to see all the flaps, spoilers and slats operating from a passenger perspective. Maybe if a bunch of us are enthusiastic about this the designers might consider doing it. Meljet already has with his 744. Cheers,Todd

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If it's absent from a payware aircraft, I won't buy it. And unless a freeware aircraft has an outstanding exterior visual model (like Mike Stone's work), I favor freeware aircraft with the wing views, like the Arrow III or the Debonair, and of course the A340... It's often argued that pilots can't see the wings (in airliners and heavy jets). But simulating flight from a passenger's perspective has been and is a valid way of enjoying the sim for many, including myself. I've flown more than a million miles as a passenger. My hands-on experience equates to a few lessons in the mid-80's. When I fly, I enjoy reliving my experiences in flight, which have been most often from the passenger perspective.I've found many designers aren't putting in wing views because they either don't know how, or they are afraid that it will hurt fps and performance (something I've never seen even with a slower P3/800). A recent post from a payware designer said you could either have a virtual cockpit, or a wing view, and suggested Ariane sacrificed the V/C to support the wing view. Tell that to Geof with his great Debonair, or with Warren's Arrow... Or to Dreamfleet with their great Cardinal, and Flight1 with the 421C. Adding the wing just involves cloning the parts needed for the interior view (GMAX) or marking them as interior (FSDS 1.X) or marking them as VC (FSDS 2.X).So, my vote is for wing views. I don't feel the entire cabin has to be modeled, but having the wing there, with the control surfaces moving against the chop, adds depth and dimension to the experience.I still hold out hope that many designers will release updates to existing GMAX aircraft which support the wing views. Since the parts can be cloned, and can use the same bmp's as the exterior models, the process should be simple compared to the overall process of designing an aircraft.-John

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I would have to say count me in, love those wing views.Can't wait for Meljet 744 :)

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Unless you can really see the wing from the cockpit (I.E. Most GA) then I don't want it in there. I don't see the purpose of the wing view besides to take pretty screenshots and wow people. When I fly I tend to repain in the cockpit or in the front of the VC, and when landing its even more important that im paying attention, after all, how can you land from a wing view?Scott

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"after all, how can you land from a wing view"The purpose is as I described above--simming of flight from a pax perspective is a valid way to enjoy the sim.As for landing while in wing view, there's a few ways... During replay, as a passenger.... Or using my Autoland utility... :) And sometimes if I'm in calm winds and I'm bringing in an aircraft, I like to pan over as I flare and watch the wing add a sense of speed to touchdown and rollout...

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I love Wing Views, they add a lot to the flight...I always tend to replay some parts of the flight with those views, becasue you can't fly the plane without watching in front of you. I must say that is one of the main things that make me like the Ariane 734 so much.I would really like to see them in a/cs if they're not really difficult for the designer to make.If they aren't, and consiering they don't degrade FPS that much, I don't see why people should not like wing viewsm they just don't use them :(Besides, what is said about wing views can be said about watching the replay in Tower or Spot View Mode. You can't fly the plane that way, and of coruse you can't see your own plane during the flight. Yet designers always look for the perfet visual model.

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No, you definitely wouldn't use them for landing. But you can take a quick look to the side or back 3/4 depending how you have it set up and it makes for even greater immersion. Of course, if you don't want to see them, just set your view point forward. But it is really amazing to watch a replay of a landing from the passenger view, as all the surfaces deploy on the wing. Just watch that A340 wing unflex as you slow down for a thrill.Cheers,Todd

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Shure would love to see all that wing stuff doing it's thing from pax view.

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I love wing views. I've read some of the responses below, and wonder if we don't have those that want a "flight sim for pilots" and some a "flight sim for pax". :)I find that, after a hard work day, it's fun to simulate, even being a pax! I find flying realistic and serious enough when I fly the C172 on weekends (and that's the only way to approach real flying), so a little imagination is cool when at the computer :) .Bruce.

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Hello, I would like to be able to fly my approach in either a VC or the Panel view, and reply my approach/Landing with a wing view, see how it looks from a passenger point of view! I am for wing-view!Regards, Julie Scott, A320 Pilot UK Charter Airline!

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Yes-----I prefer wing views. The more parts, the better!As a passenger, pilot, and "experimental class" aircraft builder, I have a great interest in the mechanics of wing. When flying commercially, it's always a seat just fore or aft of the wing, when possible.L.Adamson

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NO, in a passenger jet I prefer to sit in the cockpit. I like to pretend beeing the pilot, not a passenger. But of course there aren't many really good jet VCs out there. Captainsim will have a stunning one in their 727, and I would never switch that for a wing wiev.

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Greetings!I can fly as a wing watching passenger in real life whenever I want (well... as long as money allows - grin!), so that really holds no attraction for me in FS2002. I bought the sim to simulate things that I can NOT do in real life, like "piloting" a DC3, a B-29 or a 737. But, of course, to each his own. Meticulously created visual models have no value at all to me and neither do wing views or passenger cabin views... in fact I consider them a bloody waste of bits and bytes. But if others think differently, well...: they've got the exact same right to their tastes and idiosyncrasies as I have to mine! Be well, all of you.Jaap Verduijn.

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"and I would never switch that for a wing view."A point I made in the CaptainSim forum is that you don't have to. It's a fallacy that having virtual wing views or cabins means sacrificing a virtual cockpit. Nor is the pilot forced to see them--they are controlled through the eyepoint parameter in the aircraft.cfg. To be honest, I feel that many designers, especially GMAX, just don't want to try. I can forgive freeware designers for that--I am grateful for even the simplest of efforts from the freeware community. But payware designers don't have an excuse, unless they clearly state that such views aren't offered. On the other hand, the absence of a virtual cockpit in Ariane's 737 really diminishes the aircraft's value, for exactly the reason you state. For simmers who prefer the role of the pilot in a simulation, having no virtual cockpit in a payware airliner is a real waste, IMHO.I think designers should try to include both. From my limited exposure to GMAX, I'd say it's a heck of a lot easier to include a wing view, as opposed to complete virtual cockpit/cabin/wing experience. POSKY and Simubuild prove the latter can be had. On a rather crude ultralight project I'm doing, I was able to create the wing view and virtual panel with very little extra work. The panel took more effort than the wing, which I simply cloned. It can be done, and I'd say from the majority of this thread's responses, people would like to see it. For those who have the perfectly valid wish to enjoy the sim without the wing views, that is already possible on all airliners, just by moving the eyepoint back into the cockpit.

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>>I bought the sim to simulate things that I can NOT do in >real life, like "piloting" a DC3, a B-29 or a 737. >>But, of course, to each his own. Meticulously created visual >models have no value at all to me and neither do wing views >or passenger cabin views... in fact I consider them a bloody >waste of bits and bytes.Wow....................... next time a real DC-3 or B-29 flies overhead, you won't have to bother looking towards the sky for the visual exterior! :)L.Adamson

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Greetings L.Adamson!Why not? That's a real life experience that I CAN have, and which I enjoy! As far as the DC3 is concerned, I mean: there's several of them around where I live. As for the B-29: maybe I'll go and see CAF's Fifi sometime!Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

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I guess I'm just one of those guys who wants to see the "fake" four radial engines start up with smoke effects, before I climb into the fake cockpit. Just add's to the whole "faked" experience! :)L.Adamson

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Well, we're both having fun, and that's the main thing, ain't it? My kids consider me crazy anyway, sitting in my little cockpit with head phones and eDimensional glasses on - I fear they kind of expect me to holler "Vrrrroom! Vrrrroom!" every now and then (grin)!Jaap Verduijn.

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I would vote YES for wing views! Even though I prefer to spend most of my time in the cockpit, it is interesting to go into replay mode and see what my landing or takeoff looked like from the passengers perspective. Rob

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