DX 9.0a - Thank God for System Restore!

[Guest ScottPilot]

I decided to to update DirectX 8.1 to version 9.0a, just to see if there would be any performance improvement in MSFS, as I have read in some posts on this forum. (Boy, what a mistake that was!)However, before doing that, I set a system restore point in Windows XP pro, just in case.I am sure glad that I did that!Before version 9 of Direct X, MSFS was running very well with no stutters or pauses. After updating DirectX to version 9, major stuttering an pauses in MSFS started. After several hours of tweaking MSFS, I had no luck in smoothing out the sim!So, today I restored my computer back to the point before directX 9 and now everything is back to its optimum performance in MSFS!All that I can say is, I am sure glad that I am running XP pro with the system restore feature, otherwise I may have been committed to a re-format of the hard drive to get things back to normal.Happy Simming!Scott :-)ATP/CFII - KCOSSystem:PIII 1 GHZ, 512MB SDRAM, Windows XP Pro SP1, Nvidia GF4 Card with 30.82 drivers

[Guest]

Hi Scott,Unfortunately, you'll be forced to upgrade to DX9 very near in the future since FS9 will require it (among other games). Since most don't have issues like you describe when upgrading to DX9a today, it would seem the problem is with your specific configuration rather than DX9 itself (or an unknown incompatibility of some sort).In your particular situation, now might be a good time to figure out what the problem is at your leisure, before the moment comes that you actually want to use a DX9 game (again, such as FS9). I can imagine the frustration that would cause when you're trying to check out a new game, but system instability hampers your enjoyment (and enthusiasm most likely).Just an idea for ya.Take care,Elrond---MS Flight Simulator Tips and TricksEnthused AVSIM Peon - with minor Bucket and Mop duties (they only let me roam near the AVSIM toilets!)

[wsieffert]

Ya beat me to it, Elrond!!!I had problems with installing directx9.0a on my WinXP Pro, in that the DirectPlay wasn't installed the first time. I reinstalled and it correct the problem. Why it didn't install properly the first time is anyone's guess!Lastly, anytime one updates their directx, they need to run the diagnostic and ensure the tests are pasted. Press, start, run, type dxdiag, OK, let it stabilize, then check each tab and run the tests.

[Guest John_Hirsch]

EDIT: Spelling errorScott - you may want to upgrade your nVidia drivers from 30.82 to 43.45 and THEN upgrade to DirectX 9.0a.I had absolutely no problem what so ever in upgrading using the above order of changes.Hope this helps, John.

[Guest JonP01]

Interestingly, the very first time I made a jump from 8.1 to (at the time) 9.0, I too experienced Scott's symptoms. I spend about a day trying to work out what had happened. In the end I decided I could format my hard drive and reload everything in half a day. So I did this and installed 9.0 from scratch. After doing this, it appeared to work pretty much as the earlier 8.1 version did. I haven't yet tried 9.0a, but I'm hoping that in my case the results are precisely the same as 9.0. Actually if FS9 lets me run on the original 9.0, I might initially do this before contemplating a 9.0 to 9.0a upgrade. I hate changing more than one thing at once on my system unless it is unavoidable.

[Guest ba747heavy]

Very good advice, and I would wholeheartedly recommend DC 9.0a because of the performance jumps I have seen.

[brucek]

I still have to upgrade to DX 9 / 9.0a, so this topic interests me. As Elrond says, it might be a good time to do this sooner rather than later when loading a new sim.Would video drivers be an issue that might cause the above problems? I have the 29.42 nVidia set for my G3/Ti200. I'm sure that these drivers are not DX9 compliant, but then again I always thought that DX was backwards compatible.Any thoughts? Thanks,Bruce.

[Guest]

Hi Bruce,Thats an interesting problem as well. When 3DMark03 was first released, I had problems running it (one of the few DX9 "required" apps out there) on anything earlier than the 4x.x series with NVidia cards. In 3DMark03's case, the first DX7 based "flight sim" test ran fine with all drivers, but the latter DX8.1+ based tests would not display properly unless the 4x.x series was installed. All actual DX7 and DX8 based games and benchmarks run fine on top of DX9 with the earlier drivers - including FS2002.I haven't had the time to do extensive testing on more than one machine in this regard, so it may just have been a fluke. In that one machine's case, however, a 4x.x driver upgrade solved DX8.1+ 3DMark03 test problems. It'll be instructive to hear from others on their own experiences with the benchmark since the situation should be identical to running FS9 (a DX8.1+ based game) on top of DX9.Good heavens, I just read this post... Talk about acronym overload! :-rollTake care,Elrond---MS Flight Simulator Tips and TricksEnthused AVSIM Peon - with minor Bucket and Mop duties (they only let me roam near the AVSIM toilets!)

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Scott.You failed to mention just what addon programs, dlls, background processes, drivers, etc... you are using in the FS environment, that might actually be causing those stutters. I'm not saying that DirectX9.0a isn't in conflict with one of these, but a highly tweaked, or 'busy' system will usually have more opportunity for these types of problems. I suspect your FS environment is highly tweaked, as may be your computer, and therein lies the basic problem.We are assuming FS2004 will need DirectX9 to run. If that's true, Elrond's advice about resolving compatibility issues now is pretty good advice.Dick

[Guest Lindy]

I find it interesting that about half the people who have "upgraded" to DX 9.0a experienced no problems and often got a performance boost as well and the other half have had trouble.I myself just moved from DX8.xx to DX9.0a on my Win98SE system and thankfully had no problems. I didn't see any great improvement either, but at least everything (including Fly!2) is working fine. Whether one experiences joy or despair when changing DX versions I guess must be determined by individual system set up. -Lindy :-wave

[brucek]

Thanks Elrond.I also wonder- there was recently a version of DX9.0a that was pulled by MS shortly after release. I assume that going to the MS site and searching for "DX9" ot just "DX" will obtain the correct version?Thanks- good thread,Bruce.

[Guest]

since directx is one of the core parts of the windows O/S it's very important to have all the updates for your O/S version regardless if you think you need them or not. You can eliminate many problems just by updating with windows update. This does not mean performance increase but just less chance of a problem occuring. I have run directx 9a for alittle bit and last night I uninstalled directx9a with a directx uninstaller and then went DX8.2. I do see some differnces. Colors seem to be brighter with 8.2 than 9.0a. FSAA works much better. The overall quailty is much better to me.Maybe Iam just seeing things :). I might give another crack at DX 9 to see if i see in major differnce but keep in mind that really FS2k2 can not take advantage of the DX9 engine at all and niether can a GF4 ti series card. So while you might see a small boost performance it could just be that the graphic quality has been some what degraded since you are running a DX 8 game with DX9. We will all have to go to DX9 when FS2k4 comes out but I would think that Fs2k4 itself will be better optimized to suite people who have to use DX9 on a DX8.1 video card. I would atleast hope that. If anything I just really hope the FS team is working on really optimizing this version for very good performance with max detail . I do not of course expect it but I do not see the point in making FS2k4 if it is going to perform no better or worse than FS2k2. I guess we will know this summer :) Capt.Richard Dillon (KATL)www.jetstarairlines.comhttp://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg"Lets Roll" 9/11 -----------------------Specs AMD 2400 XP MSI KTV4 768MB DDR 2100Asus GF4 ti 4200 128MBSB Audigy Gamer Ch Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows XP pro SP1a

[brucek]

Hi Richard,"....and niether can a GF4 ti series card....."This is another good point. I wonder- what cards that are out there today that can take advantage of DX9? I'm thinking of a video card upgrade soon, and it would make sense to get something that FS2k4 (aka DX9) could work with in providing a good image. The again, it might be worth the wait until we get some user reports on FS2k4 too.Thanks,Bruce.

[Guest ScottPilot]

Thanks to all of you in this post for your opinions and advice!I did some more thinking and went ahead and un-installed my 30.82 drivers, then installed the new 43.45 drivers. Lastly, I re-downloaded the DX 9.0a update (After setting a new restore point of course).I had to do a few changes to my display setting in MSFS, but for the most part, I have re-gained the same performance that I was getting using DX 8.1 and the 30.82 drivers.I did see a slight drop in my overall FPS, but the sim is pretty smooth without pauses, just like I was getting before the 1st time that I upgraded to DX 9.0a.I had reverted back to the 30.82's originally, after trying the 40.72s, because the 30.82 ran MSFS much smoother.Now, it seems like the 43.45 drivers are working out pretty well. So after a few more days of testing, I will delete my DX 8.1 restore point if the performance of MSFS keeps working out.Once again, I am sure glad that Windows XP has the restore feature. It makes troubleshooting and driver changes much more easy. If there is a problem, just revert back to the restore point, if not, move forward!Thanks again for the replies to my post! They really helped me out!Scott :-scatterATP/CFII - KCOS

[Guest]

Hi Bruce,Here is the list of desktop cards that are fully DX9 compliant to date:ATI Radeon 9500 (Pro)ATI Radeon 9600 (Pro)ATI Radeon 9700 (Pro)ATI Radeon 9800 (Pro)NVidia GeForce-FX 5200 (Ultra)NVidia GeForce-FX 5600 (Ultra)NVidia GeForce-FX 5800 (Ultra)S3 DeltaChrome (announced but not released to date - questionable performance and support until reviewed)The ATI 9000 and 9100 series is DX8.1+ compliant only, and the NVidia Ti series (4200, 4400, 4600, 4800) is DX8.1 specific. All will run fine on top of DX9 however.With the low price of the Radeon 9500 ($148ish US or $177ish US for the Pro), I wouldn't recommend anything less today for a new purchase. The 9500 series is an excellent value card that dramatically outperforms any Ti 4xxx series. It also does better than the newer Radeon 9600 series in most situations - a few games with high AA+AF being the only exceptions. If you can afford the Radeon 9700 or even better the 9800 of course, go for it.Since the current GeForce-FX series is wholly outclassed by the current Raedon's (not to mention the 5800's insane cooling), I wouldn't recommend them. That will probably change when the NVidia spring refresh comes out based on the NV35 updates.One thing to keep in mind: as Paul has so rightly pointed out before, Century of Flight won't require a DX9 based video card - any DX8 compliant card can take advantage of all its features (unless this has changed *very* recently). It will, however, require DX9 to be installed, as all Microsoft games require the latest DX version even if they don't use any of the new DX features. This is classic Microsoft marketing and nothing more. Other games that actually use DX9 features will be released in the near future however.Good luck,Elrond---MS Flight Simulator Tips and TricksEnthused AVSIM Peon - with minor Bucket and Mop duties (they only let me roam near the AVSIM toilets!)