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Overpriced Products

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I'm not dissing Perfect Flight or anything like that, but I just wanted to state that I think their Grumman S2-E/S2-A Tracker is way overpriced. $22.50 for a medium detailed aircraft? The gorgeous Dreamfleet Cardinal is superdetailed and has a top-quality panel set, and it costs 45 cents more. Same thing with the amazing C421 by Flight1. What about the Archer by Dreamfleet? $19.95. All of FSD's planes are a few dollars cheaper for more than twice the quality... Commander 115 and Piper Cub - $15; Cheyenne 400LS - $17.50; Seneca V - $18.50. Etc. etc... you get my point. I'm not making a complaint, and please don't tell me "if you dont like it, then dont buy it" because I know that very well... Even if I had the money, I would not buy this aircraft because, yes it is detailed and it has a nice panel and im sure it flies great and all that, maybe there might even be more to it than meets my eye, but in my humble opinion, from what the eye can see, they have overpriced it by about $8 - $10. Maybe I'm being out of line by posting this... if I am, I am deeply sorry, but I just felt like sharing my thoughts with you guys and maybe getting some feedback on that.

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I haven't flown their plane either, but the screenshot of the virtual cockpit was a big let down!!! Compare this to the VCs of the Cardinal or the Marchetti SF.260 ... this plane would be a nice addition for every freeware collection, and paying around 10$ could be ok as well, but over 20$? No way!Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

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I agree, too many of us have dished out our hard earned money for substandard overpriced products..... Your not out of line at all.regards

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Let's add the Twin Otter by Lago to the list: at 20 euro I can't say it's grossely overpiced, but if I compare quality and features with the payware aircraft you mentioned, I cannot escape the conclusion that it too is too expensive. There are also examples of payware sceneries who charge the same price for just one airport as others do for an (often better) package of 5, 6 airports and more.I think it's about time that we, the consumers of payware addons, share our opinions on what we think is a fair price for a commercial product. You have every right to make a price/quality comparison. Take any consumer magazine and that's what it always boils down to: do they think the price is right? And which product offers the best value for money? Why not in this case?I think this is also a major shortcoming in many of the reviews we see on different flightsim sites. First, they only tend to review the most outstanding products while (often deliberately) keeping silent about the not-so-good ones. Second, they very seldom voice any opinion about the price setting of a product (unless they think it's great value for money). Price has been a big taboo until now. I see no reason why it should be.Paul

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What can I say but....AGREED There is way better FREEWAREthan payware out there!!-Shane

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And...hah! oh yah, sure, the SF-260 by realair sim is great, but the VC, man, that stutters like crazy at 30fps !!!-Shane

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Shane,Did you read the manuals? If your system is challenged by the VC, simply turn gauge quality to "low" in your display/aircraft menu and voila, you'll get smooth motion again. And the gauges will still be quite sharp.Regards,Rob YoungRealAir Simulations

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Anyone that's been flying sims for awhile has been disappointed with a payware download at some time or another. Being a little slower than most, I have fallen victim to this a few times.IMHO, Perflect Flight has been a major offender in this area, offering substandard products and dismal customer support. I was blown away by the errors in their JUMBO! product and my subsequent requests for help that were completely ignored.I have no desire to slam certain individuals or companies but I repeatedly see new products come out from certain companies, knowing that when I go to the forums I will see the same old complaints about the "new" product. I would like to encourage all of us to share these experiences openly on the forums to save other over-eager pilots the same disappointment.If this is done without defaming or tearing down any provider, the result would be a happier flying community and companies that are more acountable for the goods they deliver.David

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The bottom line is refuse to be a beta tester anymore. Let someone else buy a product Look at the reviews on the forums. Protest strongly if the quality is not up to par. But ultimatly it may do no good. We that populate the forums are just a drop in the bucket for those who sell a boxed product. Take the newest dissapointment plane out there put a pretty box on it and sell it a one of the major retail software outlets and people will buy it thats where the real money is at.Frankly I feel that many developers could care less what we thinkDennis Waggoner

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With a box bought at a local store, it is much easier to return or exchange it. Just ask to see the manager, and then up the chain until you get satisfaction.

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Which brings up a interesting point. On current distributor is sayin on their forum that they will not refund any money until the third patch is released. I guess they think we should all beta test their products for them.Dennis

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Overpriced Products !! yes there are some out there that are overpriced and are horrble compard to some great freeware out there! i hope this trend does not grow bigger :(

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If you are persistant and return the product in pristine condition, you shouldn't have any problems at a store. They have several options including return to manufacturer as damaged, shipping off to another store, or simply re-shrinkwrapping it and putting it back on the shelf.

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But, there is hope. I won't say "who", but there is an S2 in the works designed with FDS2, all the bells & whistles, exact panel & air/cfg (beta by Stoof-drivers), folding wings, and perhaps reflective textures. But not with radars popping out all over. When? 2-3? weeks. How much? Free here at Avsim.

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If this $22.50 would be ok just imagine what captainsim could ask for the 727 :-lol

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>>I think this is also a major shortcoming in many of the reviews we >see on different flightsim sites. First, they only tend to review >the most outstanding products while (often deliberately) keeping >silent about the not-so-good ones. It has a lot to do with the size of the review staff.Most FlightSim sites don't have enough reviewers to review everything. When I did reviews at Simflight.com, it would take like 2 to 3 weeks to do a review. Its not a full time job so your not going to get a whole lot of reviews done unless you have a very large review staff. It makes sense to focus on the products of greatest interest to your readers. For the most part those often are most outstanding products.The second issue is often if a developer doesn't believe they will get a good review, they won't give out review copies.We had that problem with TRI, when FLY!2 was first released. It wasn't ready, and they knew it. I ended up buying my own copy of FLY!2 and doing the review anyway. But you can't do that all the time.>Second, they very seldom voice any opinion about the price setting >of a product (unless they think it's great value for money). Price >has been a big taboo until now. I see no reason why it should be.The reviewers job is to tell you about the product so that you have the necessary information to make your buying decision with.You are the one who decides whether its a great value, not the reviewer.Who's paying the money here, you are the reviewer ? The reviewer in most cases is getting his copy for free.Regards.Ernie.

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Speak loudly with your wallets my friends, speak loudly!They will get the message when they begin to lose money on the products.

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I am glad someone else brought this up. I couldnt believe it when I looked at the screenshots. The panel looks like the default Cessna's thats has been rearramged. It is terrible to charge money for that.Andrew

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People like me (generalizing) are into the reality of flight sim. Not all of us can get into the cockpit of a 747 or Seneca (legaly).There is only one that I can say I have been disapointed in the rest I just have not bothered to buy. The PSS Seneca was a major disapointment. My Seneca enjoyment was to be redemed by FSD's, which put out terrific products. I have not seen one that doesn't look like amature crap! Lago also gave it a good shot with their Twin Otter. In my opinion, it is a great looking airplane with some bugs, but Lago will soon fix these as they are big on customer service.I see the tides are changing, and it is up to the consumer to use this to our advantage. There are a lot of 3rd party creators out their and we have to sift through the junk until we get to something wonderful. Basially the price is going to always be justified by the consumer. If you purchase a product and you get a lot of enjoyment out of it, you will tell 10+ people that it was worth every penny. If you get no joy out of it and feel cheated you will tell 50+ people that it was an overpriced piece of junk. This is just the facts of business in a capitalistic society.....

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Wow... I was really surprised to get so much feedback here... One poster mentioned the SF-260, which I forgot to mention... Theres another one right there... $25 bucks is a very hefty price but in my opinion, its a very "profitable" investment. How would one profit, you say? By having one of the most realistic flight models out there along with a top-quality visual model, inside and out. And they are charging $22.50? What I think they need to do is they need to LOOK at all the other products out there... make an HONEST judgement on how much they think that this thing is worth. That is, if it is worth paying for. I'm sure its hard to say that your own project that you spent so much time on is only worth about $5 compared to other people who are getting $20 or more for their work. But take a real good, *HONEST* look at your model and look at "theirs" and put yourself in the customer's shoes... would you spend TWENTY TWO dollars on something that is on par of a medium quality *freeware* aircraft? I appreciate the work they did on it but... they need to take another look at it and make a SERIOUS judgement on the price... dont judge it by the effort you feel you put into it... judge it by how you think customers are actually willing to pay for it. Honestly, I would charge a maximum of $10 for it, if I was a payware a/c builder. If I was a payware builder, I'd be all freeware, even if I could make SF-260 quality stuff. :)

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Ernie, thanks for your comments; you're 'right on the money'. At AVSIM Online we do have a pretty good number of reviewers, and they all are concerned about "value for the money." The difficulty is that "one man's ceiling is another man's floor," as the saying goes. That's why we work hard to characterize each commercial product objectively -- and our numeric rating analysis helps us to get it right (usually). But price isn't one of the factors used in our numeric rating evaluation process, as we feel it's up to the individual reader to decide what's 'value' for him.Even we can't find the time to review everything that comes along; and yes, you can imagine that our staff bids on the more interesting ones first. That said, we've reviewed a number of products that we've found wanting, and we'll continue to do that (and call it as we see it).

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Well no no I meant that as if it was just a side thing... a hobby, if you will... I didnt mean to imply that it was silly to charge for a product. In fact, after re-reading it and thinking about it, I think that if I spent as much time working on something like the SF-260 as you have, perhaps I would probably turn to payware if I felt it was worthy enough to be payware, as your SF-260 surely is. At the *moment* though, *if* I had your abilities, I think that I probably would be mainly freeware. But as I understand, you have plenty or work put into freeware projects so I think that I would probably be very similar to you if I was in your shoes. Umm... The point I'm really driving at is... as you said, you charge what you feel is a modest sum for what the user gets. From what I can see in screenshots, $22.50 is NOT a modest sum at all for that S2 aircraft, especially when I compare it to something like your aircraft, which is only $2.50 more for triple the quality and service. Yes I understand it is a different aircraft but clearly the quality and the service of the company is not the same.

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Todd, don't forget some very real sacrifices that the commercial developers make....They tend to avoid sharing insights and learning because of the nature of commercial competition, and the commercial work becomes an obligation to them, both in support and in maintaining state of the art skills. While I've been developing freeware scenery for years, and I've seen payware of quality levels I feel are beneath my own, I stay freeware because: I want my work to remain a hobby. I do it when it pleases me. I use tools that are free and I don't want to pay for commercial versions. Releasing free results is a cool way to "pay" for my tools. I want to give back to so many who taught and continue to teach me for free.When you accept money for it, its a job! Sometimes these factors are more important than quality levels, and therefore, sometimes freeware can be of better quality than payware.Cheers,Bob Bernstein

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